Oh, how I wish this was a reality! Has anyone else been having trouble with the signal strength on the EDACS system? I do not know which site I am getting but, sometimes the signals are barely readable. IE today New Windsor was down in the noise.
Orange County P25 Trunked System on the air.....
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KC2zZe
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Funny you mention faith. I keep hearing the slightest of murmurs that certain ambulance corps should break away from Orange 9-1-1 and form a consortium similar to NWBCD, MICCom, or REMCS. to handle EMS dispatch and response. I wouldn't hold my breath, as there are other steps these corps can take to rectify their particular problems with the current VHF system and anticipated problems with the future 700 MHz system, but one can dream - can't they?
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captncarp
Member
Sounds like a complex system that is a vendors dream sale. Complex systems have a lot of failures and are very expensive to keep operating. Reminds me of a old saying "LET THE BUYER BEWARE"
Rockland's Motorola ASTRO 25 trunked system, the same thing that Orange is installing, has been on the air for 5+ years and to date has not had a single failure that has negatively impacted any users. Every issue thus far has been small potatoes and was easily fixed within a few hours time. I'm not sure where your notion that "complex systems have a lot of failures" comes from, as a properly designed, installed, monitored, and maintained system can chug along trouble free for many years.
Frankly, you're very correct. It IS a complex system and would be a vendors dream sale. With that said, it was also a dream purchase! Having EVERYONE in the County on the same platform of radio system has proven itself many times in the short 5 years that Rockland has had their system on line.
And "Complex" is an understatement. However, if you're tasked with taking care of one of these systems and you're NOT an absent landlord, they work beautiful for years! Watching over one of these systems is a full time job, comes with lots of responsibility, and requires some technical know how, but you have to be in it, to win it. Compared to where we came from, I wouldn't trade it for anything!
With regard to Orange County's progress, I think people should be a little less critical and a little more patient. It's easy for us to sit behind our keyboards and trash things. But, building one of these systems for an entire County is a major undertaking. YOU HAVE NO IDEA what it's like to deal with the internal and external politics! Getting the civil work done (foundations, electric, towers,) takes forever and getting leases takes even longer than forever!! Be patient everyone.......it will happen.
And "Complex" is an understatement. However, if you're tasked with taking care of one of these systems and you're NOT an absent landlord, they work beautiful for years! Watching over one of these systems is a full time job, comes with lots of responsibility, and requires some technical know how, but you have to be in it, to win it. Compared to where we came from, I wouldn't trade it for anything!
With regard to Orange County's progress, I think people should be a little less critical and a little more patient. It's easy for us to sit behind our keyboards and trash things. But, building one of these systems for an entire County is a major undertaking. YOU HAVE NO IDEA what it's like to deal with the internal and external politics! Getting the civil work done (foundations, electric, towers,) takes forever and getting leases takes even longer than forever!! Be patient everyone.......it will happen.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
I think the biggest issue for most is the history of the County. There is also a lack of transparency as the County used to update its website regarding the project’s status. Once people became critical of their timeline (because it was constantly getting pushed back), the County stopped updating it on the website. Tell us (the public) like it is....like how they are having issues with certain groups like the “Stop Mount Hope Radio Tower.” Or how they can’t license certain frequencies at certain sites resulting in two simulcast sites now instead of one. Tell us why. I know, but the general public does not.
Or how about people at the top with no background to build this type of system. Heck, I personally recommended putting a site on Schunnemunk for VHF MRD (pretty easy task) more than a decade before it went online. It feel on deaf ears...one who was a Frontier know nothing and the other a retired FBI agent who told me “the wheels of government move slowly.” Officer Safety is not something to play with for a decade.
Not to mention everyone giving their buddy a job...look at all the 211 pension waivers in OC DES. Or the Communications Specialist who is learning as he goes along. Yes, I understand everyone has to start somewhere, but how about under someone with experience showing you the way. I give him a lot of crap but honestly, he probably knows more than any of the people above him.
How many times do the dispatchers go to the backup 911 center in Chester and check the equipment is functioning properly when the main center fails, like it has in the past? First they would have to cut the weeds growing outside on the building and tower. I can’t even imagine how much dust is accumulating inside.
You are right, if it’s run the right way, by someone who cares, who is not an absentee landlord...simple maintenance goes a long way. Visiting sites goes a long way.
We all want it to succeed. My family lives in the County. But they still call the 7 digit line to the town to this day. Sad but true.
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Or how about people at the top with no background to build this type of system. Heck, I personally recommended putting a site on Schunnemunk for VHF MRD (pretty easy task) more than a decade before it went online. It feel on deaf ears...one who was a Frontier know nothing and the other a retired FBI agent who told me “the wheels of government move slowly.” Officer Safety is not something to play with for a decade.
Not to mention everyone giving their buddy a job...look at all the 211 pension waivers in OC DES. Or the Communications Specialist who is learning as he goes along. Yes, I understand everyone has to start somewhere, but how about under someone with experience showing you the way. I give him a lot of crap but honestly, he probably knows more than any of the people above him.
How many times do the dispatchers go to the backup 911 center in Chester and check the equipment is functioning properly when the main center fails, like it has in the past? First they would have to cut the weeds growing outside on the building and tower. I can’t even imagine how much dust is accumulating inside.
You are right, if it’s run the right way, by someone who cares, who is not an absentee landlord...simple maintenance goes a long way. Visiting sites goes a long way.
We all want it to succeed. My family lives in the County. But they still call the 7 digit line to the town to this day. Sad but true.
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APX8000
Sarcastic Member
As far as Rockland, not only did they get 100% buy in from everyone in the County, they even added additional agencies like NYSP and NYSPP. That goes to show when you build it, and build it right, they will come. I can’t wait to see the two systems on ISSI 8000 !
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I concur with N2ACF. Very well stated! I helped work on and was a user of the old Rockland High Band System, which was a big improvement over the original low band system in place since 1947, but the new digital system is 100% better than the high band VHF. It was hard work indeed, for those closely involved in building it. But now all agencies working within the county are interoperable and can talk to each other if needed. The users have clear coverage in almost all areas.
No doubt they have very competent people watching over this system. Hopefully Orange will make sure all users have adequate coverage before going live as they did in Rockland.
Rockland was indeed a success story. So will Orange when it goes live if they follow Rockland's lead.
captncarp
Member
Orange ain't rockland
The longer this project takes, the more agencies will look at other options for their communications. Motorola now offers this radio network https://www.waveoncloud.com/ and I am sure that NYCOMCO is probably working on their own P25 radio netwrok.
I know that some agencies that are NOT dispatched by OC911, want nothing to do with the OC P25 radio system. I have personally been told by at least one EMS agency, that they are not going to switch to the P25 system. They are going to continue to utilize their current VHF radio system, that works just fine for them.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
That is not for mission critical communications meaning public safety. I would not want my lifeline depending on PTT over a cellular network. Even with the deployment off FirstNet, I can assure you that most public safety that are buying in and doing it for data, not voice.
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APX8000
Sarcastic Member
I heard similar from an EMS agency and a PD. The PD basically said they will put the mobiles in the car and console and use them to answer polls, and then use their existing system to maintain comms with their dispatcher. If 911 needs them, dispatch can answer up at that point. A lot of consoles answer 911 anyway now on polls and say the units that are responding. We may be talking about the same EMS agency...I’m told they want Zero to do will 911.
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We may be talking about 2 different agencies. The one I am talking about is in the southern part of the County. Any of the PDs that are currently using EDACS and who want to stay on EDACS, can use the new Harris portables that work on EDACS & P25 systems. This way, PD can continue to operate on EDACS and they can talk to the County on the P25 system if they really need to. The EMS agency I am speaking of does not even want County radios in their vehicles. They want to stay with what they have.
Also, someone made a comment earlier about EMS agencies forming their consortium for dispatch services. I can see that happening. An example of this is Northwest Bergen Central Dispatch in NJ. It seems to be working out well so far.
Also, someone made a comment earlier about EMS agencies forming their consortium for dispatch services. I can see that happening. An example of this is Northwest Bergen Central Dispatch in NJ. It seems to be working out well so far.
It remains to be seen how many agencies 911 will have to dispatch for in the future
Chester Town PD has always had a CAD and built a dispatch room in their new station. TCPD and VCPD also have talkgroups on a new one channel DMR system per the database.
Greenwood Lake Fire has gone to Warwick PD for dispatch and rumors are that Pine Island FD will follow. GLPD and VFPD also have murmurs around them
There are also unconfirmed rumors that Monroe EMS and Monroe Fire are looking to go back to Monroe PD as dispatch
As far as the EMS dispatch goes most agencies in OC are volunteer who will staff and pay for this new comm center? And I don't see MLSS and EMStar working together or throwing the vollies a bone
Chester Town PD has always had a CAD and built a dispatch room in their new station. TCPD and VCPD also have talkgroups on a new one channel DMR system per the database.
Greenwood Lake Fire has gone to Warwick PD for dispatch and rumors are that Pine Island FD will follow. GLPD and VFPD also have murmurs around them
There are also unconfirmed rumors that Monroe EMS and Monroe Fire are looking to go back to Monroe PD as dispatch
As far as the EMS dispatch goes most agencies in OC are volunteer who will staff and pay for this new comm center? And I don't see MLSS and EMStar working together or throwing the vollies a bone
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The Town PD should hire a few dispatchers and have them dispatch for the Town, The Village, The Town & Village DPWs and the Chester FD. They have the ability to do this. What DMR system are they on?
Warwick PD already dispatches EMS for GWL, Pine Island & Warwick EMS, it would not be hard add the FDs into the picture
When I dispatched for Monroe PD back in 1998, we dispatched Monroe EMS & Monroe FD and it worked out just fine. They should do it again.
Money would be the obstacle with the EMS agencies, but it would be nice. Since New Windsor EMS now has the NYS DOH approval to operate in Cornwall, they should get Cornwall EMS to be dispatched by Base 5. There were rumors that Cornwall PD was going to have New Windsor PD dispatch for their midnight shift instead of having 911 do it. New Windsor PD could easily become a "regional' dispatch center. They could dispatch for Blooming Grove & Washingtonville PDs along with the FDs in the Town of Newburgh and Town of Newburgh EMS
Warwick PD already dispatches EMS for GWL, Pine Island & Warwick EMS, it would not be hard add the FDs into the picture
When I dispatched for Monroe PD back in 1998, we dispatched Monroe EMS & Monroe FD and it worked out just fine. They should do it again.
Money would be the obstacle with the EMS agencies, but it would be nice. Since New Windsor EMS now has the NYS DOH approval to operate in Cornwall, they should get Cornwall EMS to be dispatched by Base 5. There were rumors that Cornwall PD was going to have New Windsor PD dispatch for their midnight shift instead of having 911 do it. New Windsor PD could easily become a "regional' dispatch center. They could dispatch for Blooming Grove & Washingtonville PDs along with the FDs in the Town of Newburgh and Town of Newburgh EMS
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Per the database:
154.025 DMR TG 303 (Town of Chester PD); TG 304 (Village of Chester PD)
"Regionalization" would actually be quite easy in Orange County if they wanted to
Police side only examples:
Warwick PD- Warwick, GWL, Florida, Tuxedo
Chester PD- Chester T, Chester V, Goshen T, Goshen V*
Monroe PD- Monroe V
Woodbury PD- Woodbury T and Harriman V
Highland Falls PD- Highland Falls and Highlands
Cornwall PD- Cornwall and Cornwall on Hudson
New Windsor PD- New Windsor, Washingtonville*, Blooming Grove*
Newburgh Town PD - Newburgh T
Newburgh City PD- Newburgh C
Montgomery PD- Montgomery T, Montgomery V, Maybrook V
Walden PD - Walden
Wallkill PD- Wallkill, Crawford*
Middletown PD- City of Middletown
Port Jervis PD- Port Jervis, Deerpark, Mount Hope
Tuxedo Park PD - Tuxedo Park
And that covers everyone with no job losses. Any agency that would need to give up its dispatch would transfer their dispatchers to the larger agency they would need the extra help. Agencies with a * means only when they don't have their own dispatch. More mergers are possible if some agencies want to give up their own dispatch
154.025 DMR TG 303 (Town of Chester PD); TG 304 (Village of Chester PD)
"Regionalization" would actually be quite easy in Orange County if they wanted to
Police side only examples:
Warwick PD- Warwick, GWL, Florida, Tuxedo
Chester PD- Chester T, Chester V, Goshen T, Goshen V*
Monroe PD- Monroe V
Woodbury PD- Woodbury T and Harriman V
Highland Falls PD- Highland Falls and Highlands
Cornwall PD- Cornwall and Cornwall on Hudson
New Windsor PD- New Windsor, Washingtonville*, Blooming Grove*
Newburgh Town PD - Newburgh T
Newburgh City PD- Newburgh C
Montgomery PD- Montgomery T, Montgomery V, Maybrook V
Walden PD - Walden
Wallkill PD- Wallkill, Crawford*
Middletown PD- City of Middletown
Port Jervis PD- Port Jervis, Deerpark, Mount Hope
Tuxedo Park PD - Tuxedo Park
And that covers everyone with no job losses. Any agency that would need to give up its dispatch would transfer their dispatchers to the larger agency they would need the extra help. Agencies with a * means only when they don't have their own dispatch. More mergers are possible if some agencies want to give up their own dispatch
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Are things that bad in OC? Seems like a waste of resources and time. When someone calls 911 in OC will that 911 call go to OC first or will it get routed automatically to the nearest agency? It seems like its a waste of time if OC has to sit there and transfer 911 calls to the correct agency handing the dispatching... It just seems like things are going in reverse in OC from reading all of these post.
Calls in OC are answered and entered into CAD by the county 911 center. The calls are then pulled out of CAD by the local agency who dispatches or 911 dispatches it themselves if they handle those agencies
911 may or may not get the correct location
911 may or may not give the call to the right agency
911 may or may not embellish the call details
911 may or may not ask the right questions (Just because you get 100 on your ProQA audits does not mean the info the field units need is actually being obtained)
911 may or may not care about officer safety (losing track of units, disclosing police operations etc)
911 may or may not get the correct location
911 may or may not give the call to the right agency
911 may or may not embellish the call details
911 may or may not ask the right questions (Just because you get 100 on your ProQA audits does not mean the info the field units need is actually being obtained)
911 may or may not care about officer safety (losing track of units, disclosing police operations etc)
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