Ottawa police using faulty radio system

[IdleMonitor]

Safety of officers and public at risk, unions say

In the most dangerous of circumstances — from responding to shots fired to hunting for armed suspects — Ottawa officers are at risk of not being able to communicate with fellow police 20 feet away from them.

Constant blackout zones and unreliable connections to the city-owned radio system used by Ottawa officers is putting them and the public at daily risk, charge both police unions.

Ottawa police using faulty radio system — safety of officers and public at risk, unions say

 

[kayn1n32008]

Safety of officers and public at risk, unions say

In the most dangerous of circumstances — from responding to shots fired to hunting for armed suspects — Ottawa officers are at risk of not being able to communicate with fellow police 20 feet away from them.

Constant blackout zones and unreliable connections to the city-owned radio system used by Ottawa officers is putting them and the public at daily risk, charge both police unions.

Ottawa police using faulty radio system — safety of officers and public at risk, unions say

Looks like a case of wanting a gold star coverage, but only funding a participation ribbon coverage system.

Portable, on street coverage is vastly cheaper than portable on belt, in building coverage.

Police expect portable, on belt, inside building coverage, and I bet they don’t have it.

Interesting language:

“is operating in compliance with the terms and conditions of the request for proposal,”

‘To Skof, it appears to be that the system was never intended to be enough for a municipal police force. It was designed with certain specifications, and those specifications aren’t enough to guarantee safety, he said.’

‘While the city is in charge of making sure Bell maintains the system, it can only do so according to the specifications of the contract it signed.’

I bet the system is working as specified. The coverage problems are because the city did not want to pay for ‘portable, on belt, in building’ coverage.

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[TampaTyron]

Sounds like they are pressuring the big M to try to fix the issues. The big M will bend over backwards to keep their name out of the papers (usually, not always). TT

 

[PriorMike]

Sounds like they are pressuring the big M to try to fix the issues. The big M will bend over backwards to keep their name out of the papers (usually, not always). TT

It's not a Motorola system.

 

[DaveH]

It's not a Motorola system.

It's Harris P25 system using Tait radios; regardless.

Dave

 

[DaveH]

As for in-building, Fire uses DVRs, do Police? I recall way back on the EDACS system, police did use VRs which were analog. They must have realized this and stopped using them. 851.1875 was one of them.

Dave

 

[mmisk]

Gatineau seems to be using multiple sites, while Ottawa has only two.
Wonder how the in-building coverage is in the City of Gatineau?

 

[Jammin_Jay]

It's not a surprise it's not working. They were doing tests without the whole fleet of police radios being active. And also in cement buildings is not what OC Transpo or other depots do. I believe this is a hit and miss project, with more tower sites being implemented for coverage. There's no way to tell , and Bell should of come up with a different course of action. It seems like a waste of time for OPS to be the last dept to enter the new radio system and then problems start. No system is fool proof, you wont know the problems until you have 100 percent usage of all the radios and depts on the same system.

 

[DaveH]

Gatineau seems to be using multiple sites, while Ottawa has only two.
Wonder how the in-building coverage is in the City of Gatineau?

EDACS network had only two systems, but there were many more sites including remote receivers etc., 17 or 23 total or some number like that.

(side note, EDACS originally was three systems, 0001, 0004, and 0007, then was folded into two).

I am thinking the P25 system is similar but have no supporting evidence. Someone on here probably knows but may be sworn to secrecy.

City of Ottawa is larger than PEI and to give portable coverage over most of it (if that is what's being demanded) would be some challenge.

Dave

 

[kayn1n32008]

Also the title is misleading. I would bet the system is working as designed. It likely was not designed for portable, in building, on belt coverage.


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[kayn1n32008]

It's not a surprise it's not working. They were doing tests without the whole fleet of police radios , being active. And also being in cement buildings is not what OC Transpo or other depots do. I believe this is a hit and miss project, with more tower sites being implemented for coverage. There's no way to tell , and Bell should of come up with a different course of action. It seems like a waste of time for OPS to be the last dept to enter the new radio system and then problems start. No system is fool proof, you won't know the problems until you have 100 percent usage of all the radios and depts on the same system

Whether the entire fleet was active during testing makes zero difference. The only difference having the entire fleet active during testing would be capacity, not coverage.

The specific coverage requirements are what’s important. What was the system coverage specified in the system design?




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[Jammin_Jay]

Well if it's a portable issue inside cement buildings, maximum portable allowance is 5W. Despite design coverage, there are going to be dead zones and areas where signals are not predicted to act accordingly.
What I meant by capacity is not number of radios added to the system that is affecting it , you have a better chance to discover where dead zones and weak coverage spots are will full radio testing, because you have that many more radios in different RF contours around the city in relation to the towers. Perhaps the OFS can also give there input on radio coverage problems. And both depts can work together to provide data to the city and radio service vendor.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Well if it's a portable issue inside cement buildings, maximum portable allowance is 5w. Despite design coverage, there are going to be dead zones and areas where signals are not predicted to act accordingly.
What I meant by capacity is not number of radios added to the system , you have a better chance to discover where dead zones and weak coverage spots are will full radio testing, because you have that many more radios in different RF contours around the city in relation to the towers.

Coverage prediction software, when properly configured, is very accurate.

@700Mhz, or 800MHz it’s max of 3w for portables. Regardless, the portables transmit power, and location is taken into account when designing the system.

‘Dead zones’ will be found with software, especially with known structure density. I will bet my bottom dollar this system was designed for on street portable coverage(hand held, not on belt), NOT portable, on belt, in building coverage.

You also don’t coverage acceptance test a new system when all users are migrated, it is done before users are moved to it.


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[R8000]

Sounds like they are pressuring the big M to try to fix the issues. The big M will bend over backwards to keep their name out of the papers (usually, not always). TT

"It's not a Motorola system "

ZING !!!!

 

[PriorMike]

It's Harris P25 system using Tait radios; regardless.

Dave

Yeah, I didn't want to name names.

 

[IdleMonitor]

Launching a new radio system shouldn't be 'rocket science,' Mayor Watson says.

Launching a new radio system shouldn't be 'rocket science,' Mayor Watson says

 

[kayn1n32008]

Launching a new radio system shouldn't be 'rocket science,' Mayor Watson says.

Launching a new radio system shouldn't be 'rocket science,' Mayor Watson says

Telling would be the RFP the city agreed with. What was the system coverage specified to be, and has Harris/Bell met these requirements.


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[mmisk]

I feel that 100% in- building coverage is a tall order. Perhaps not really possible?

 

[IdleMonitor]

Heh...nothing like wanting to replace a brand new $55 million dollar radio system already. Must be some extra funds lying around they're not telling anyone about.

Curious. What other type of radio system that's current that they could possibly go to?

I'm interested in hearing what the other users have to say about the system as well. Is OC Transpo, public works and bylaw complaining about it as also? Granted they likely don't need the portable coverage that the police do but still...

How different is this system compared to the EDACS system? Both are digital capable, both are 800 mhz both likely required the same needs so.....

I agree though. I don't believe they'll ever find a radio system that's 100% as far as in building portable coverage is concerned.

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The Police Association believes the only fix for them is a new system entirely.

Ottawa Police union warns new radio system can't penetrate buildings; Mayor says new system shouldn't be 'rocket science'

 

[Bear15]

Strange they flipped the enc last week and now they don't like it.
how long did they were testing in the clear P25?
850mhz with enc not that reliable for them especially in building and around downtown.
turn off enc my be the cheapest alternative on a weak enc signal until
"Jimmy boy"find a real solution, or go back to Pro-Voice
I like the complaint when using the lowest bidder!