Parma/Medina/Ottawa Radio System

[Jphila20]

I have the Medina site running and I'm in southern Lorain County. Using SDTrunk because they are phase II. I have been hearing a lot of radio traffic on the Wadsworth. 3063 talk group. Sounds like a barricaded subject in a trailer and it's on fire.

In listening I heard them mention they were behind a Harmony Township fire truck. Harmony Township is in Morrow County.

I cross reference some of the frequencies for Medina with the MARCS system and nothing.

How could this be happening? I am recording the audio.

Any thoughts?

 

[mtindor]

Nope. makes zero sense. Perhaps you think you hear Harmony Township but actually heard Homer or Harrisville twp.

how about posting a clip of the audio. that might help

 

[Jphila20]

This one talks about Greene County SO - 20220724_152418medina_medina_traffic__to_3063_from_5209007
This one talks about the Harmony Township Fire Truck - 20220724_153159Medina_Medina_TRAFFIC__TO_3063_FROM_5209007
This one talks about North Eastern High School - 20220724_152418Medina_Medina_TRAFFIC__TO_3063_FROM_5209007

I also turned on my TRS-1 which is programed for the Parma/Medina/Ottawa Radio System and it also received the same radio traffic. It does not have the Ottawa portion included.

 

[wmlovell]

TG "3063" on the Medina P25 system is a patch of the Wadsworth UHF frequency 460.4125. The RID is the same dispatch radio as it is rebroadcasting that frequency. What you are monitoring is actually coming from 460.4125 off an antenna in Wadsworth.

Now who that is? I can't tell you.

 

[Jphila20]

TG "3063" on the Medina P25 system is a patch of the Wadsworth UHF frequency 460.4125. The RID is the same dispatch radio as it is rebroadcasting that frequency. What you are monitoring is actually coming from 460.4125 off an antenna in Wadsworth.

Now who that is? I can't tell you.

I don't believe I'm picking up 460.4125. I have tried and I'm too far away from the towers. Did you listen to the samples of audio I posted? Both radios that picked up the traffic are set to monitor the trunked Parma/Medina/Ottawa Radio System. I'm guessing you are not familiar with SDRTrunk. It show signal strength, talk group, frequency the talk group is using and duration of the call. I'm also pretty sure that the TRX-1 is programed correctly.

Both the TRX-1 and SDRTrunk still continued to receive other transmissions from the system even when the the Wadsworth talk group was silent. At this time, 1934 hours, I am still getting traffic from the talk group now. The radio id I see the most of is 5209007. Can't find that either.

I don't know how or why I was able to hear this stuff like it was just down the street.

Weird.

I wish someone else in Lorain or Medina counties could see if they are getting this also.

I also started searching the MARCS system to see if an Event Channel or Interop may be patched.

 

[jasonk]

You are hearing XLECOM1 on the MARCS System - they were using this for an incident in Clark County where a Deputy was shot and killed in the Line of Duty today.

 

[Jphila20]

You are hearing XLECOM1 on the MARCS System - they were using this for an incident in Clark County where a Deputy was shot and killed in the Line of Duty today.

I don't see how this is picking up MARCS. I am now getting XLECOM1 on my Unitrunker with the same traffic. Just after 2000 hours some users in Geauga and Summit county turned on XLECOM1.

 

[Jphila20]

Follow Up.

It must have been some type of skip. No longer getting that talk group.

I would love have someone explain it.

Thank you to all for the feed back.

Prayers for the Deputy and his family.

 

[kf8yk]

I don't see how this is picking up MARCS. I am now getting XLECOM1 on my Unitrunker with the same traffic. Just after 2000 hours some users in Geauga and Summit county turned on XLECOM1.

Sounds like a console patch between XLECOM1 and Medina/Parma TG 3063. The RID has been previously identified as one associated with a console gateway.

 

[Jphila20]

Sounds like a console patch between XLECOM1 and Medina/Parma TG 3063. The RID has been previously identified as one associated with a console gateway.

I know the radio tech from Parma and they don't have MARCS on their system.
I have also heard the mobile field force talk on the same TG during the Akron protest.

Really, really strange..............

 

[kf8yk]

The State gave every sheriff's office a MARCS control station so Medina has at least one.

The Parma system does not have any network level ISSI link to MARCS but it's quite likely there's a control station or two plugged in at various console sites.

 

[wd8chl]

MARCS does not like patching something off network onto their system. And users of the Medina system have been told not to do it, lest the radio be turned off.
Someone said the old 460 freq was patched to their Medina TG. That's your answer. You were hearing that frequency being patched to the Medina system.
Now, two things come to mind as to why you might be hearing Harmony TWP. Either one of their units was up here on mutual aid for some reason, or more likely, the radio being used to receive the 460 system was also hearing Harmony on a band opening. There's been a LOT of that over the last few months.

 

[mtindor]

MARCS does not like patching something off network onto their system. And users of the Medina system have been told not to do it, lest the radio be turned off.
Someone said the old 460 freq was patched to their Medina TG. That's your answer. You were hearing that frequency being patched to the Medina system.
Now, two things come to mind as to why you might be hearing Harmony TWP. Either one of their units was up here on mutual aid for some reason, or more likely, the radio being used to receive the 460 system was also hearing Harmony on a band opening. There's been a LOT of that over the last few months.

The OP specifically said that he was hearing (a) Greene Co SO, (b) Harmony Twp Fire and (b) Northeastern High School on TG 3063. So that is definitely not going to be something heard from a 460 mhz band opening.

And, although I could be [and probably am wrong], I think MARCS does not want patches ONTO their system talkgroups, which is completely different than patching a MARCS talkgroup over to the Medina system. As @jasonk said, it was XLECOM1 traffic being heard, and as @kf8yk suggests, Medina has at least one MARCS control station and the control station could be tied into the Medina consoles. And to me that would suggest that the XLECOM1 traffic could have been easily patched over to the Medina system in that fashion.

 

[wd8chl]

The OP specifically said that he was hearing (a) Greene Co SO, (b) Harmony Twp Fire and (b) Northeastern High School on TG 3063. So that is definitely not going to be something heard from a 460 mhz band opening.

And, although I could be [and probably am wrong], I think MARCS does not want patches ONTO their system talkgroups, which is completely different than patching a MARCS talkgroup over to the Medina system. As @jasonk said, it was XLECOM1 traffic being heard, and as @kf8yk suggests, Medina has at least one MARCS control station and the control station could be tied into the Medina consoles. And to me that would suggest that the XLECOM1 traffic could have been easily patched over to the Medina system in that fashion.

I'm taking this direct from MARCS personnel. They do not want patches to or from their system to other systems or conventional channels. Yes, Medina SO has a MARCS radio. It can technically be patched through the console. They were told not to by MARCS. Others have been told the same thing. The only thing I can see is if someone set up a one-way patch from MARCS to something else, since MARCS would never know.
As to the other stuff, I didn't see anything other than Harmony Twp, and that the OP traced that back to southern Ohio somewhere. So if Medina had a 460 channel patched to one of their TG's, and Harmony Twp was heard, then either one of their units was in range of that link, or was in range of the repeater it was listening to, presumably for interop for some reason, or the two are on the same channel/tone and there was a band opening.

 

[mtindor]

The only thing I can see is if someone set up a one-way patch from MARCS to something else, since MARCS would never know.
As to the other stuff, I didn't see anything other than Harmony Twp, and that the OP traced that back to southern Ohio somewhere. So if Medina had a 460 channel patched to one of their TG's, and Harmony Twp was heard, then either one of their units was in range of that link, or was in range of the repeater it was listening to, presumably for interop for some reason, or the two are on the same channel/tone and there was a band opening.

We will just have to agree to disagree, since that sounds totally absurd to me.

 

[wa8pyr]

And, although I could be [and probably am wrong], I think MARCS does not want patches ONTO their system talkgroups, which is completely different than patching a MARCS talkgroup over to the Medina system. As @jasonk said, it was XLECOM1 traffic being heard, and as @kf8yk suggests, Medina has at least one MARCS control station and the control station could be tied into the Medina consoles. And to me that would suggest that the XLECOM1 traffic could have been easily patched over to the Medina system in that fashion.

A patch is a patch; it doesn't matter whether it's a MARCS talkgroup being patched onto the Medina system, or a Medina talkgroup being patched onto MARCS. A patch is two-way, and results in additional traffic on both systems. As such, MARCS doesn't allow patches, unless it's for short-term incident or exercise use only. Full-time patches are forbidden and could lead to the patching radio being disabled.

The MARCS patching policy is here:

MPP 22.0 Radio Talkgroup Patching Policy

das.ohio.gov

 

[mtindor]

A patch is a patch; it doesn't matter whether it's a MARCS talkgroup being patched onto the Medina system, or a Medina talkgroup being patched onto MARCS. A patch is two-way, and results in additional traffic on both systems. As such, MARCS doesn't allow patches, unless it's for short-term incident or exercise use only. Full-time patches are forbidden and could lead to the patching radio being disabled.

The MARCS patching policy is here:

MPP 22.0 Radio Talkgroup Patching Policy

das.ohio.gov

I guess I need a find a word that is appropriate that isn't "patch". Certainly one could feed the audio from XLECOM1 into anything they wanted and it could be one-way. That's what I'm suggesting. What would you call that?

 

[wmlovell]

I guess I need a find a word that is appropriate that isn't "patch". Certainly one could feed the audio from XLECOM1 into anything they wanted and it could be one-way. That's what I'm suggesting. What would you call that?

Rebroadcast?

 

[wa8pyr]

I guess I need a find a word that is appropriate that isn't "patch". Certainly one could feed the audio from XLECOM1 into anything they wanted and it could be one-way. That's what I'm suggesting. What would you call that?

Since it's one-way I'd call it a multicast or rebroadcast, and as long as there was no way for traffic to get from the "foreign" system onto MARCS, there's no reason it couldn't be done. However, there are a couple of issues with that:

1. You would probably be rebroadcasting traffic from MARCS onto a "foreign" system without authorization.
2. What's the point of such a setup and why would you spend the money to do it?

If you're trying to monitor a talkgroup carrying traffic from an incident you're involved in, an ordinary patch is a better option as it gives you the ability to communicate both ways; better yet is for an agency that's involved to switch their radios to XLECOM and communicate directly with no need for a patch. In theory, everybody who's on 700/800 (no matter what system) is supposed to have MARCS interop talkgroups in their radios for just such a situation.

If you're not involved in the incident, technically you have no business monitoring the talkgroup "officially" and should use a scanner like everybody else if you want to listen.

 

[Jphila20]

Since it's one-way I'd call it a multicast or rebroadcast, and as long as there was no way for traffic to get from the "foreign" system onto MARCS, there's no reason it couldn't be done. However, there are a couple of issues with that:

1. You would probably be rebroadcasting traffic from MARCS onto a "foreign" system without authorization.
2. What's the point of such a setup and why would you spend the money to do it?

If you're trying to monitor a talkgroup carrying traffic from an incident you're involved in, an ordinary patch is a better option as it gives you the ability to communicate both ways; better yet is for an agency that's involved to switch their radios to XLECOM and communicate directly with no need for a patch. In theory, everybody who's on 700/800 (no matter what system) is supposed to have MARCS interop talkgroups in their radios for just such a situation.

If you're not involved in the incident, technically you have no business monitoring the talkgroup "officially" and should use a scanner like everybody else if you want to listen.

This is why I posted my findings. I couldn't and still don't understand how it happened.

Thanks!