Paulding County

[cavitt]

I was recently in Paulding where a local law enforcement agency was changing out their radios. They described it as a "non-800 trunking system." Maybe LTR? Anyone have a clue?
Thanks, RC

 

[rapidcharger]

I was recently in Paulding where a local law enforcement agency was changing out their radios. They described it as a "non-800 trunking system." Maybe LTR? Anyone have a clue?
Thanks, RC

Are you talking about Paulding County migrating to MotoTRBO or some other agency?

 

[MTS2000des]

I was recently in Paulding where a local law enforcement agency was changing out their radios. They described it as a "non-800 trunking system." Maybe LTR? Anyone have a clue?
Thanks, RC

Paulding county has migrated to a MotoTRBO multi-site capacity plus UHF (450MHz) trunking system.

I still hear FD on their analog repeater (154.175) and users sound mostly analog. The SO dispatch TG is simulcasted on the old 155.43 repeater, but not sure how long that will be.

The county commission approved the expenditure in 2011/2012, and buildout commenced last year and went live late last year, and most users migrated after the first of the year.

They spent pennies per radio compared to what most P25 systems cost of the size to cover a county like Paulding, IIRC total price tag was $2.5 million.

 

[ticoman71]

Paulding's MotoTRBO system?

Paulding county has migrated to a MotoTRBO multi-site capacity plus UHF (450MHz) trunking system.

I still hear FD on their analog repeater (154.175) and users sound mostly analog. The SO dispatch TG is simulcasted on the old 155.43 repeater, but not sure how long that will be.

The county commission approved the expenditure in 2011/2012, and buildout commenced last year and went live late last year, and most users migrated after the first of the year.

They spent pennies per radio compared to what most P25 systems cost of the size to cover a county like Paulding, IIRC total price tag was $2.5 million.

So now that the migration to the new system is over, what's the best radio to monitor it? There is a feed here in the live audio area, I wonder who the provider is and/or the radio being used?

 

[MTS2000des]

So now that the migration to the new system is over, what's the best radio to monitor it? There is a feed here in the live audio area, I wonder who the provider is and/or the radio being used?

The feed provider has an authorized radio on the system so I've been told.

The only way to monitor this system is with DSD or similar setup (DMR decode).

No consumer scanner is capable of decoding MotoTRBO.

The fire toneouts and responses are still on VHF 154.175, but I think this will come to an end as soon.

 

[ticoman71]

The feed provider has an authorized radio on the system so I've been told.

The only way to monitor this system is with DSD or similar setup (DMR decode).

No consumer scanner is capable of decoding MotoTRBO.

The fire toneouts and responses are still on VHF 154.175, but I think this will come to an end as soon.

Thanks for the info... So a XPR6550 will work correct? No really familiar with how to program one of them but I assume it can be programmed to RX only, no TX.

Interesting way to isolate themselves. So much for interoperability huh!

 

[MTS2000des]

Thanks for the info... So a XPR6550 will work correct? No really familiar with how to program one of them but I assume it can be programmed to RX only, no TX.

Interesting way to isolate themselves. So much for interoperability huh!

Not that simple, they have a capacity plus mutlisite system, and they are also using enhanced privacy on some talkgroups.

Only an authorized radio can properly monitor a capacity plus system. A basic single site TRBO repeater is easy to program a radio up for RX only but not a more complex system like they have.

They aren't trying to isolate themselves, they had to buy what their budget allowed. They were forced by Radio Spectrum Sales and Leasing LLC, aka the FCC to either go narrowband on their existing and already poorly performing analog VHF system, or move to something else. They tried NXDN on VHF but were displeased with the coverage and performance. VHF is a garbage band for portable radios especially in suburban areas. They looked into building out the needed sites on the WARRS system or Cobb DTRS, but the cost of doing each and buying the subscriber radios exceeded their budget by far.

they bought what they could afford, and they got what they paid for: reliable body worn portable radio coverage, plenty of voice channels, and encryption, all for under 2 million dollars tax tag and title.

 

[SCPD]

They tried NXDN on VHF but were displeased with the coverage and performance. VHF is a garbage band for portable radios especially in suburban areas. They looked into building out the needed sites on the WARRS system or Cobb DTRS, but the cost of doing each and buying the subscriber radios exceeded their budget by far.

MTS2000,

I would like to throw in a possible correction to your statement regarding Paulding County trying NXDN on VHF. I assisted Paulding with some of the testing of NXDN equipment and can tell you they were pleased with the performance of NXDN in VHF. In some cases, Paulding County officials were blown away by the portable coverage provided on one of their VHF repeater channels operating in the digital mode. In one of the tests I conducted I stood on the Marietta Square with a Kenwood NX200 portable operating VHF narrowband and was able to talk to the Paulding County 9-1-1 Center without any problem. I definitely could not do that with an analog portable even operating in wide band. Now, unless Paulding County officials found something they did not like about NXDN that their 9-1-1 Director did not share with me, and I do not believe that occurred, it was my understanding the only thing that kept them from remaining VHF and switching to NXDN was one or more vendors told them they could secure the number of VHF frequencies they needed at each of the sites to build out the system they wanted.

VHF performs very well in most urban suburban areas, at least we have had and continue to have fairly good success with it in the City of Marietta, GA.

Many public safety agencies in Georgia have migrated to a digital protocol other than P25 because they cannot afford the upfront and reoccurring costs associated with P25 even though P25 has been touted as "the answer for all of public safety's interoperability problems." Counties like Jackson, Laurens, Paulding, Polk, White and many more have switched to MotorTRBO while other counties like McDuffie, Tattnall and others have switched to NXDN to meet their budget an operational needs.

 

[MTS2000des]

MTS2000,

I would like to throw in a possible correction to your statement regarding Paulding County trying NXDN on VHF. I assisted Paulding with some of the testing of NXDN equipment and can tell you they were pleased with the performance of NXDN in VHF. In some cases, Paulding County officials were blown away by the portable coverage provided on one of their VHF repeater channels operating in the digital mode. In one of the tests I conducted I stood on the Marietta Square with a Kenwood NX200 portable operating VHF narrowband and was able to talk to the Paulding County 9-1-1 Center without any problem. I definitely could not do that with an analog portable even operating in wide band. Now, unless Paulding County officials found something they did not like about NXDN that their 9-1-1 Director did not share with me, and I do not believe that occurred, it was my understanding the only thing that kept them from remaining VHF and switching to NXDN was one or more vendors told them they could secure the number of VHF frequencies they needed at each of the sites to build out the system they wanted.

VHF performs very well in most urban suburban areas, at least we have had and continue to have fairly good success with it in the City of Marietta, GA.

Many public safety agencies in Georgia have migrated to a digital protocol other than P25 because they cannot afford the upfront and reoccurring costs associated with P25 even though P25 has been touted as "the answer for all of public safety's interoperability problems." Counties like Jackson, Laurens, Paulding, Polk, White and many more have switched to MotorTRBO while other counties like McDuffie, Tattnall and others have switched to NXDN to meet their budget an operational needs.

You are correct, however the personnel I know from Hiram had issues with body worn operation, the same problems they had with their analog VHF system of having to take the radio off their belt to get a useable signal into the repeater. While the NXDN had greater TX distance, body worn operation (which can be problematic on VHF due to the combination of inefficient antennas and attenuation) affects digital just as much so as analog on VHF. Barrow county had similar issues with their new P25 phase 1 trunking system and it took adding two remote receiver sites to overcome this.

That and what you mentioned about getting enough viable frequency pairs on VHF that play nice with RX combiners and TX mutlicouplers is the main reason why VHF isn't practical for such large radio systems around here. Maybe if we had a better bandplan with stricter TX/RX spacing requirements and people actually paid attention to emission mask designators we would not be suffering such hickups.

Personally, I've always thought the UHF 450-520MHz band was the most ideal for suburban and urban public safety. Lower noise floor than 700/800 (thanks to no cellphones), superb building penetration and less line of site than 700/800, more efficient portable antennas, lots of spectrum and at least standardized 3MHz/5MHz TX/RX offsets give alot more flexibility for assigning channels. No wonder the cartels have their eyes on this band for the next reclamation move.

I cannot blame public safety for choosing any of these LMR technologies over P25. P25 has proven to become this largest waste of resources to fix many things that were not broken, and those that needed improvement- the evolving technologies such as DMR, NXDN and now TETRA all make affordable advances.

And of course, analog is ALWAYS interoperable...

 

[rapidcharger]

And don't get him started on vhf between 144 and 148 :lol: