Phonetic Alphabets

[lbfergus]

Just a question about phonetic alphabets. A lot of the police precincts in my area use a phonetic alpabet that is different; like Adam, Boy, Charles, David... etc. which soudns like something a little kid would make up. But the city police for the city I live in use the international phonetic alphabet; Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, etc.

What's the reasoning behind the different alphabet? Why wouldn't everyone be the same, the military uses the international one. It's what they use in aviation. Any insight?

 

[n4yek]

What's the reasoning behind the different alphabet?

Pretty much just a preference of the departments that use them.

 

[Patch42]

There have been lots of changes in phonetic alphabets through the years. I recall finding somewhere on the Internet that listed about a dozen different ones. There's one based on the names of cities. There are several based on first names. During WWII, at least according to the hundreds of war movies I've seen from during and right after the war, the US military used a phonetic alphabet that started Able, Baker, Charlie...

I believe it used to be common for police to use the phonetic alphabet based on names. "One Adam Twelve, and all other units, robbery in progress..." Or perhaps you're too young to remember "Adam 12".

My guess would be that some departments have changed because the international phonetic alphabet is somewhat of a standard. Other departments likely lag behind because what they're using works for them and they see no reason to change.

 

[lbfergus]

You know this site/forum has got to be the greatest thing ever, it gives us nerds a place to share such an incredibly fun hobby. Thanks for the help.. I didn't know there were so many phonetic alphabets. The funniest one I think is what Officer Ramathorn used in Super Troopers if you've seen that- Alpha God Mustard One Niner Decade China

 

[LEH]

One thing I recall hearing is that the 'Adam, Boy, Charles' versus the 'Alpha, Bravo, Charlie' is the first was designed by civilians and the latter by the military. The military definitely uses the latter. Police use is mixed.

 

[Stick0413]

My guess would be that some departments have changed because the international phonetic alphabet is somewhat of a standard. Other departments likely lag behind because what they're using works for them and they see no reason to change.

Actually they should be changing more to the international alphabet because everyone is wanting things to become standard (mostly for interop). Personally I like it better because it sounds more professional. Around here it is a mix of what is used.

 

[Don_Burke]

The "Alfa, Bravo, Charlie" version is the International Phonetic Aphabet.

The words (and the pronunciation and spelling) are chosen to reduce inter-language problems.

For instance, it is "Alfa" not "Alpha" and the name of the city in Canada is pronounced "kwa-BECK" while the phonetic for "Q" is pronounced "KAY-beck."

 

[k8tmk]

A local ham once chastised me for not using standard phonetics. He was a former military radio man, and decided that what they used was the "standard." I told him that many police departments use the APCO "standard," which is different. So in this case, "standard" is subjective. His argument was that we should use standard phonetics, otherwise foreign hams won't understand. I countered with "well I once heard a Russian ham using 'four wheel drive' as his phonetics," so I will use whatever I want. When this local ham confirms 347 countries like I have, then we will continue the argument.

Randy (Radio Amateurs Never Die Young)

 

[Patch42]

For instance, it is "Alfa" not "Alpha" and the name of the city in Canada is pronounced "kwa-BECK" while the phonetic for "Q" is pronounced "KAY-beck."

I've seen "alfa" spelled both ways in various charts. Probably a mistake from whoever put the chart together. That's one of the problems with the Internet -- anybody with a computer and a little time can create an authoritative looking web page.

As for the pronunciation of Quebec, I've definitely heard far more of the former. In fact, I don't think I've heard anyone pronounce it "KAY-beck", even when listening to air traffic control channels. I'm not saying your wrong about the correct way to say it, just that it isn't done that way much in practice. At least not that I've heard.

 

[NWI_Scanner_Guy]

A local ham once chastised me for not using standard phonetics. He was a former military radio man, and decided that what they used was the "standard." I told him that many police departments use the APCO "standard," which is different. So in this case, "standard" is subjective. His argument was that we should use standard phonetics, otherwise foreign hams won't understand. I countered with "well I once heard a Russian ham using 'four wheel drive' as his phonetics," so I will use whatever I want. When this local ham confirms 347 countries like I have, then we will continue the argument.

Randy (Radio Amateurs Never Die Young)

Certainly not "standard" by any means, but definitely creative

 

[Don_Burke]

A local ham once chastised me for not using standard phonetics. He was a former military radio man, and decided that what they used was the "standard." I told him that many police departments use the APCO "standard," which is different. So in this case, "standard" is subjective. His argument was that we should use standard phonetics, otherwise foreign hams won't understand. I countered with "well I once heard a Russian ham using 'four wheel drive' as his phonetics," so I will use whatever I want. When this local ham confirms 347 countries like I have, then we will continue the argument.

Randy (Radio Amateurs Never Die Young)

Just tell him it is a mnemonic, not a phonetic.

 

[CraneGuru]

Here is a huge list of various phonetic alphabets from all over the world:

http://faqs.cs.uu.nl/na-dir/radio/phonetic-alph/full.html

Note that there is no "standard", as K8TMK states above.

btw, here is my favorite list :twisted: :

Aesthetic Bdellium Cyst Djellaba Euphemism Feign Gnat Heuristic Ithyphallic

Jarlsberg Knickers Llama Mnemonic Nuance Oestrogen Pneumonia Quay Rhythm

Sjambok Tzar Ulema Veldt Wrath Xylophone Yttrium Zloty

 

[scrotumola]

In a suburb of a rather large city, we had one officer in particular that was from deep-in-the-sticks BFE.
It didn't take long for us (we all collaborated) to document/collect and exploit his hillbilly tendancies. Here are his 'fonetiks.'

Alligator, Barnyard, Cow, Doggie, Elephant, Foxhound, Goat, Horse, Indian, Jackass, Kinfolk, Llama, Moose, Neighbor, Oink, Pig, Quack, Rooster, Sheep, Tractor, Udder, Varmit,
Windmill, X-Rated, Yankee, Zebra

 

[SAR923]

I think phonetics based on names (Adam, Boy, Charlie) are far more common in the west. I know they were universally used in California and I commonly heard it in Washington, Oregon, Arizona, and Nevada. Here in Alabama, the "standard" military phonetics are used, with the occasional ones like scrotumola heard. I suspect it's just long standing tradition that dictates use and, as long as it's used commonly over a wide area, interoperability shouldn't be a problem, although I'm pretty sure most people will know Zulu or Zebra stands for "Z".

 

[N9JIG]

Most agencies in the upper Midwest, including Chicago use the "Police Standard" phonetics (Adam, Boy, Charles, David...) but many DuPage (Suburban county) agencies use a derivative of the Military phonetics. Often I have heard them talking to Chicago PD on our Point to Point channel (155.370) and CPD would ask them to repeat the message using "Real phonetics" or use "English".

One old time CPD Point operator was famous for his gruffness and would say things like "Call me back when you figure out how to say it so I can understand you" or "I ain't in the Army any more, I talk English"

 

[ka5lqj]

And then there are "Hams"......LOL!

Hmmmmm,

I'm thinking as long as the dispatcher and the unit KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS what it means, does it really matter? One hundred years from now, will it matter that unit 10C5's, "Golf" matter? LOL.

Then, of course we have the "Hams", of which I am one of, who make up "cutsie" phonetics to go with our callsigns. Mine was adapted from one of the locals I heard, a long-time ham and gentleman, "Bud" Ports, W5AJS - Whiskey 5 Aces, Jacks, & Spades. Mine being KA5LQJ, some made some rather 'rude' ones up that I won't post. So, I chose: "King Ace 5 Lucky Queens & Jacks.....my name is Don, Double Or Nothing, it goes with the poker hand." This was said numerous times on 10 meters as I worked 10/10 numbers. It worked well, during high noise levels as well as weak stations. This was waaaaay before the gaming (gambling is STILL illegal in Louisiana) riverboats came along and made Shreveport, the "Gateway to HELL....5 Riverboats, one horsetrack, several strip joints...no waiting, bring LOTS of $$$!"

I've heard many agencies use a mixture of phonetics, some are used by former military police who joined the police force after completeing their enlistment. I will say that some of the "Northern" police officers seem to have a code all their own, LOL! Oh, let's not forget Broadrick Crawford saying, "10-4, 10-4, 10-4" into that 1950's Motorola mic.

Remember to celibrate the National Holiday on October 4th.

I'm 10-10 (Out of service, but subject to call).

Respectfully,
73,

Don. KA5LQJ

 

[SLWilson]

Huh?

The "Alfa, Bravo, Charlie" version is the International Phonetic Aphabet.

The words (and the pronunciation and spelling) are chosen to reduce inter-language problems.

For instance, it is "Alfa" not "Alpha" and the name of the city in Canada is pronounced "kwa-BECK" while the phonetic for "Q" is pronounced "KAY-beck."

Huh, what are you saying?

Steve/KB8FAR

 

[texasemt13]

When this local ham confirms 347 countries like I have, then we will continue the argument.

You show me which planet has 347 "confirmed" countries and I'll show you a horrible geographer. The best count I can find is 195 countries. Are you old enough to have confirmed the Ottoman, Roman and German Empires as well or what (not that radio has been around for all of these but you get my drift)?

Not a flame- just wanna know how you've "confirmed" 347 countries- maybe I misread or you mis-typed?

 

[davidbond21]

I can't believe it took all those posts until someone recognized that there are not 347 countries in the world. And thats only because he got to this thread before me. C'mon people.

 

[k8tmk]

I was referred to the American Radio Relay's list of countries. And, yes, 347 is the correct number of ARRL countires I have confirmed. I need only North Korea and Andaman Is. to have them all.

Since many people on here are ham radio operators, they didn't have a problem with my 347 countries.

For more information, go to ARRL.ORG

Randy