Police Pursuit today, and the trouble with stringers

[alcahuete]

And that authorizes them some sort of special privileges in the California Vehicle Code? I don't think so - that's not an excuse for anything.

To be perfectly honest, the CHP themselves violate the CVC CONSTANTLY. I report them probably two dozen times or more per year. The last one involved an officer speeding to the CHP station (either the pizza was getting cold or it was past his go home time and wasn't getting OT) and almost ran me off the road at easily 130+ MPH. No lights on the front, no siren, nothing. Got a somewhat heartfelt apology from the Liutenant along with a bunch of excuses.

So apparently, even the law is above the law. That's the real reason for encryption. They don't want citizens checking up on them and keeping them in line.

 

[zz0468]

Please Enlighten Us then why the Push for Strapping is Being Done since You Say its Not the Big Reason

The biggest reason? Drug cartels, organized crime, and terrorism, both domestic and foreigner committed. The bad guys are getting quite sophisticated with their intelligence gathering. Day to day operations allow them to understand beat areas, shift changes, responses to certain specific types of events, even the names and schedules of individual officers. There's a threat there that's both "perceived", and very real.

 

[KK4JUG]

When agencies make this decisions based on these facts below they sign the bill of goods and invoice and its a done deal. I think it sucks for us good old people that stay home and not cause a scene. Being the responsible listener is just not a justification anymore to agencies. Scanner listeners are not even part of the equation in any decision making. Scanner listener fall on the pecking order where whale poop lies. That's at the bottom of the ocean floor where the bottom bottom lies. Not our ground floor. Below that, the ocean floor.

Social Media, News Media, Stringers, Lookee-loos, privacy, officer safety.

Thanks. Now I have an inferiority complex.

 

[d119]

All right guys well this thread is not about encryption or CHP violating the law. Let’s not deviate too far.

 

[mmckenna]

I think it sucks for us good old people that stay home and not cause a scene. Being the responsible listener is just not a justification anymore to agencies.

Yep.
I can assure you that when I've rolled out new systems, accommodating scanner hobbyists, amateur radio operators, stringers, news agencies, etc. is nowhere on the list of concerns.

 

[Spleen]

Social Media, News Media, Stringers, Lookee-loos, privacy, officer safety.

PIO-speak for Once we encrypt we can say and do pretty much whatever we want and no one will be the wiser. Civil rights violations, racism, lack of accountability, and incompetence will be immediately invisible.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Guy didn’t even have PP plates otherwise I could’ve given them even more info.

I suspect the guy probably got a lecture from the on scene sergeant, as I was very adamant with CHP Dispatch that the guy was right on scene with them, go contact him.

I know the S unit acknowledged the BOL, so I can only hope he got his hand slapped.

Some of these stringers drive CVPI’s with red/Amber deck lights. It’s ridiculous. Go be a cop/firefighter/park ranger/lifeguard/astronaut.

Astronaut? hum... maybe add some red and blue LEDs in the windows of the space shuttle, now we got us some space police.

 

[WRCM]

If they're not unduly endangering anyone, I have no problem with it. News stringers are supposed to be our eyes and ears when we can't be there personally. Pretty difficult to do if he's stuck in the same traffic jam I'm in.

 

[mmckenna]

Astronaut? hum... maybe add some red and blue LEDs in the windows of the space shuttle, now we got us some space police.

Ah, SpaceForce!

 

[d119]

If they're not unduly endangering anyone, I have no problem with it. News stringers are supposed to be our eyes and ears when we can't be there personally. Pretty difficult to do if he's stuck in the same traffic jam I'm in.

That way of thinking is exactly the problem. So you are essentially saying that under certain circumstances, it's OK for people to elevate themselves to "above the law" status for the benefit of capturing news for the rest of us?

I don't think so. By that logic, because I'm a radio technician that works on police and fire systems, if there's an outage, should I be allowed to drive down the shoulder if there's stopped traffic? NOPE.

Please get real with your logic.

 

[LEH]

I agree that media and independent videographers can be more of a hazard than those the police are pursuing. Netflix has an interesting series called "Shot At Night" that follows several independent video crews through out the LA area. Watching them drive to be first on scene is scary at the least and dangerous to JQ Public as they fly down the highways and byways.

Yes, it is how they make their money, but their transgressions would get most of us a series of major tickets and likely jail time.

 

[d119]

I agree that media and independent videographers can be more of a hazard than those the police are pursuing. Netflix has an interesting series called "Shot At Night" that follows several independent video crews through out the LA area. Watching them drive to be first on scene is scary at the least and dangerous to JQ Public as they fly down the highways and byways.

Yes, it is how they make their money, but their transgressions would get most of us a series of major tickets and likely jail time.

I think they prey on the fact that the police are too busy handling the incident at hand to pay attention to what they [the stringers] are doing. That, or they try and make themselves appear as if they are some sort of "unit" involved in the incident itself, until they arrive on scene. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them don't want PP plates so who they are remains more questionable rather than being right out in the open. Who is to say they aren't cold plates unless someone runs them? Just blending into the crowd of already-present undercover vehicles?

I did hear of one of them several years ago getting cited for following too closely during an incident, but that was just heresy.

 

[mmckenna]

If they're not unduly endangering anyone, I have no problem with it. News stringers are supposed to be our eyes and ears when we can't be there personally. Pretty difficult to do if he's stuck in the same traffic jam I'm in.

I can understand your point of view. However, people using this as justification is what has lead to the disease known as "whackerism". A non public safety official trying to give the image they are one, is dangerous. If anyone else had driven like that (and I know they do) they likely stood the chance of getting busted. The fact that law enforcement was too busy doing other things doesn't make it ok.

If you don't hear about a pursuit until the next day, is it still news? In other words, most of what people call news is just actually a form of entertainment. Information can be provided to the public by many sources. Having video isn't necessary. This guy was simply trying to make a buck at the risk of others safety.

 

[WRCM]

That way of thinking is exactly the problem. So you are essentially saying that under certain circumstances, it's OK for people to elevate themselves to "above the law" status for the benefit of capturing news for the rest of us?

I don't think so. By that logic, because I'm a radio technician that works on police and fire systems, if there's an outage, should I be allowed to drive down the shoulder if there's stopped traffic? NOPE.

Please get real with your logic.

Your hypothetical example has zero to do with what I'm talking about, unless you need to get up there to repair a fire system or whatever. But if your job is up there on the scene, then yes, by all means drive on the median if you need to.
It's not about anyone having special privileges or being "above the law." Including LEOs.

 

[WRCM]

I can understand your point of view. However, people using this as justification is what has lead to the disease known as "whackerism". A non public safety official trying to give the image they are one, is dangerous. If anyone else had driven like that (and I know they do) they likely stood the chance of getting busted. The fact that law enforcement was too busy doing other things doesn't make it ok.

If you don't hear about a pursuit until the next day, is it still news? In other words, most of what people call news is just actually a form of entertainment. Information can be provided to the public by many sources. Having video isn't necessary. This guy was simply trying to make a buck at the risk of others safety.

Having watched TV "news" on occasion, yes I want to see video proof.

 

[d119]

Your hypothetical example has zero to do with what I'm talking about, unless you need to get up there to repair a fire system or whatever. But if your job is up there on the scene, then yes, by all means drive on the median if you need to.
It's not about anyone having special privileges or being "above the law." Including LEOs.

But you just got done saying that you don't mind stringers taking advantage of the situation and breaking (read: synonymous with elevating ones self to "above") the law so long as "nobody gets hurt".

Which is it? You cannot have your cake and eat it too in my thread.

 

[alcahuete]

Which is it? You cannot have your cake and eat it too in my thread.

Actually you can.

Since you work in the law enforcement field, it's obvious you are one of those people who think that law enforcement creates these laws, and such laws are strictly black and white. They don't, and they're not. These are OUR laws, the peoples' laws that we have created. And at the same time, we should understand that there need to be exceptions made to the laws at various times. For example, there are laws against murder. There are then exceptions to those laws...self-defense, etc.

If the radio outage you previously described was potentially affecting the lives and safety of officers or the public, yes, I would expect you to be able to safely violate the law in order to accomplish your job. If that means driving safely on the median to get to a radio site, then that's what it means. And I expect my law enforcement employees to allow you to do just that. Does that mean flying up the median at 100 MPH? Of course not. But that also doesn't mean sitting in traffic for an hour while people are potentially being affected by the outage.

If a doctor needs to rush to the hospital or to an accident scene to save someone's life, then I expect him/her to safely take the means necessary to do so. I do not expect them to sit in rush hour traffic for an hour while someone lays around dying. In fact, many have special cards to allow them to do just that. I used to have the same card in my line of work.

What if your arm got cut off and you are trying to get yourself to the emergency room? What if your wife is pregnant and you are trying to rush her to the hospital? Should you sit in traffic and die because heaven forbid you elevate yourself above the law?

In the case of the stringer, eh, I don't know. I would say it depends on a case-by-case basis.

 

[d119]

Well, here in California we have laws that are set up to allow doctors to expedite their responses. There are specific laws for that. There are also specific laws that pertain to exigent circumstances such as medical emergencies, etc.

There are not specific laws for radio technicians, and certainly not laws for freelance stringer idiots in unmarked vehicles.

We are starting to argue semantics here which is not the scope of this thread. The person's actions were outside of what is acceptable in our region, and since I know these guys follow this forum and it was probably discovered via a scanner what was going on, I decided to call them out.

Beyond that, we could kick this back and forth until we're blue in the face. I don't agree with your view of it - but I'll defend to the death your right to have that view.

 

[WRCM]

But you just got done saying that you don't mind stringers taking advantage of the situation and breaking (read: synonymous with elevating ones self to "above") the law so long as "nobody gets hurt".

Which is it? You cannot have your cake and eat it too in my thread.

I dunno what to tell you, bud. Apparently you have it stuck in your mind that to do anything other than sit in the traffic jam is elevating oneself "above the law" regardless of extenuating circumstances. Taking that a step further, should the cops not have broken the law by exceeding the speed limit while chasing the suspect?

 

[zz0468]

News stringers are supposed to be our eyes and ears when we can't be there personally. Pretty difficult to do if he's stuck in the same traffic jam I'm in.

That's too bad.

Even LEOs must follow all traffic laws unless the situation dictates otherwise. If you see a cop speeding to the scene and he's NOT code 3, he's violating policy.

A press pass may get you behind the crime scene tape, but there's no special dispensation to void traffic laws for stringers.

I wouldn't want to be the liability insurance carrier for a news agency who's reporter caused a traffic accident by violating traffic laws. Cops can do it because they have lights and sirens to warn people they're coming.