Police Radio Jamming Device Found - Groves, TX

[MUTNAV]

Right.... The actual legal way to do it is the way some amusement parks do it... It's a technical thing that I'm not very familiar with, but there is a way to limit cell phone usage.

Thanks
Joel

Apparently as of 2005 there was something that kind of worked as I mentioned,

I didn't visit Busch Gardens that much, so it may have been something like that.

"Companies are working on devices that control a cell phone but do not "jam the signal." One device sends incoming calls to voicemail and blocks outgoing calls. The argument is that the phone still works, so it is technically not being jammed. It is a legal gray area that has not been ruled on by the FCC as of April 2005."

How Cell Phone Jammers Work

Alternatives to cell phone jamming include cell phone control and cell-phone alerters, which are used in hospitals. See alternatives to cell phone jamming.

electronics.howstuffworks.com

Thanks
Joel

 

[bill4long]

Apparently as of 2005 there was something that kind of worked as I mentioned,

I didn't visit Busch Gardens that much, so it may have been something like that.

"Companies are working on devices that control a cell phone but do not "jam the signal." One device sends incoming calls to voicemail and blocks outgoing calls. The argument is that the phone still works, so it is technically not being jammed. It is a legal gray area that has not been ruled on by the FCC as of April 2005."

How Cell Phone Jammers Work

Alternatives to cell phone jamming include cell phone control and cell-phone alerters, which are used in hospitals. See alternatives to cell phone jamming.

electronics.howstuffworks.com

Thanks
Joel

Nope. Not legal.

"The use of a phone jammer, GPS blocker, or other signal jamming device designed to intentionally block, jam, or interfere with authorized radio communications is a violation of federal law."

 

[MUTNAV]

Nope. Not legal.

"The use of a phone jammer, GPS blocker, or other signal jamming device designed to intentionally block, jam, or interfere with authorized radio communications is a violation of federal law."

So shielding a building or equipment shelter with an RF shield, line filters, and a wave-guide beyond cutoff (a "device") to interfere with radio communications is illegal?

I think the thing they were talking about wasn't a "jamming" device.

I understand what your saying, but apparently someone has found legal ways around the law. (I doubt Busch Gardens would risk the legal problems).

Thanks
Joel

 

[bill4long]

So shielding a building or equipment shelter with an RF shield, line filters, and a wave-guide beyond cutoff (a "device") to interfere with radio communications is illegal?

I wouldn't think so. The FCC site mentions "equipment." Here's a different page that cites the specific relevant laws.

Jammers

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www.fcc.gov

Section 333 of the Act prohibits willful or malicious interference with any radio communications of any station licensed by or authorized under the Act, or operated by the United States Government.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title47/html/USCODE-2011-title47.htm

 

[MUTNAV]

I wouldn't think so. The FCC site mentions "equipment." Here's a different page that cites the specific relevant laws.

Jammers

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www.fcc.gov

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title47/html/USCODE-2011-title47.htm

What they could be doing then is the passive techniques, the inside of the building looks like it's made of wood, but on street level google views, it looks like a giant metal shed (from the side and back), all it might take is some filtering of the lines going into the building as well as the aforementioned wave-guides beyond cutoff on the AC ducts..

Although I still wouldn't rule out some other type of device that could be legal.

Thanks
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

What they could be doing then is the passive techniques,

Passive doesn't mean intentional. Modern construction with high efficiency glass is really good at blocking RF.

Cell carriers would not be amused if someone was blocking services, as that impacts their bottom line. Especially at a location that has a high concentration of customers. I know from past experience that cell carriers do watch their spectrum carefully and will come investigating if they are getting interference.

Having a strong signal is different than having available bandwidth. Might be that the cell carriers just didn't have the capacity for the large number of users.

Although I still wouldn't rule out some other type of device that could be legal.

I'd love to hear about legal ways of blocking cellular. So would a lot of other people.

 

[MUTNAV]

Passive doesn't mean intentional. Modern construction with high efficiency glass is really good at blocking RF.

Cell carriers would not be amused if someone was blocking services, as that impacts their bottom line. Especially at a location that has a high concentration of customers. I know from past experience that cell carriers do watch their spectrum carefully and will come investigating if they are getting interference.

Having a strong signal is different than having available bandwidth. Might be that the cell carriers just didn't have the capacity for the large number of users.



I'd love to hear about legal ways of blocking cellular. So would a lot of other people.

Passive can mean intentional though.

and I'd also love to see how it could be done legally.

I have to think that there was some thought about it, ( having a means of limiting disruptions during the shows). The metal outer shell of the building seems like a good start.

I hear that there is wallpaper that can help with it, I was wondering if boat anti-fouling paint might be helpful (with copper in it). Schools would love it.

I guess if people in big organizations really want to limit cell usage, then they could start with reading all of the TEMPEST manuals out there, since it works both ways.

Thanks
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

Passive can mean intentional though.

Absolutely. However passive isn't very selective, so while it may do a good job blocking cellular, it would block public safety radio, as well as their own internal communications. Usually intentional isn't the plan, it's more of a convenient byproduct. Usually large facilities/campuses like that rely on a lot of RF for system controls, WiFi, communications, etc. so passive RF blocking is often very much not intentional.

As for schools, my son finished up high school last summer. He's had a cell phone for years (great way to keep track of where he was). The schools simply had a rule that the phone needed to be in a holder in the front of the class. If you got caught with it, it was taken away for the rest of the day. The school got smart and installed power strips where the phones were supposed to go in the classroom. That helped a whole lot as the kids wanted to be able to charge their phones. Talking with the teachers, there were very little issues with cell phones. My sister is a councilor at a middle school, and she said the same thing, cell phone use in schools isn't quite the huge issue that people like to claim it is.

 

[MUTNAV]

Absolutely. However passive isn't very selective, so while it may do a good job blocking cellular, it would block public safety radio, as well as their own internal communications. Usually intentional isn't the plan, it's more of a convenient byproduct. Usually large facilities/campuses like that rely on a lot of RF for system controls, WiFi, communications, etc. so passive RF blocking is often very much not intentional.

As for schools, my son finished up high school last summer. He's had a cell phone for years (great way to keep track of where he was). The schools simply had a rule that the phone needed to be in a holder in the front of the class. If you got caught with it, it was taken away for the rest of the day. The school got smart and installed power strips where the phones were supposed to go in the classroom. That helped a whole lot as the kids wanted to be able to charge their phones. Talking with the teachers, there were very little issues with cell phones. My sister is a councilor at a middle school, and she said the same thing, cell phone use in schools isn't quite the huge issue that people like to claim it is.

My wife is a teacher at a high school, a lot depends on the administration... some policies just aren't enforced across the district evenly. (She also has students that don't show up for 2 weeks at a time). A little more like how I imagine an inner city school would work.

My daughter graduated from the same district, but different school a few years ago, and once I had to go into the school to pick up the phone from the front desk because she answered a call during class (unfortunately I was the one that called her, so I couldn't really blame her for anything).

I will pass on to her the charger idea though.

Thanks
Joel

 

[bill4long]

What they could be doing then is the passive techniques, the inside of the building looks like it's made of wood, but on street level google views, it looks like a giant metal shed (from the side and back), all it might take is some filtering of the lines going into the building as well as the aforementioned wave-guides beyond cutoff on the AC ducts..

I doubt the federal courts have held that Congress (and therefore the FCC) have jurisdiction so broad as to have the right to regulate physical structures on private property with regard to this matter.

It would be interesting to see some case law on the subject.

 

[MUTNAV]

I doubt the federal courts have held that Congress (and therefore the FCC) have jurisdiction so broad as to have the right to regulate physical structures on private property with regard to this matter.

It would be interesting to see some case law on the subject.

On the other hand things like a requirement to cut down trees to facilitate a neighbors solar panels seems like a set of absurd ideas (at least at first).

A lot depends on what is in somebodies best interest.

There are a lot of absurd things happening that none of us foresaw.

Can I Do About My Neighbor's Trees Blocking My Solar Panels?

As solar technology advances, the role of solar batteries will become increasingly crucial in our pursuit of clean, reliable, and efficient energy solutions.

sunlightsolarinc.com

Thanks
Joel

 

[KevinC]

How about we get back on topic.

 

[W5KK]

How about we get back on topic.

Ok. In 2023, state attorney generals asked Congress to pass a bill allowing cell phone jammers in state prison. A bill was introduced but it died without a vote:

Prosecutors to Congress: Let state prisons jam cellphones

Top state prosecutors are urging Congress to pass legislation allowing state prisons to jam signals of cellphones smuggled to inmates.

apnews.com

Apparently, federal prisons can jam cell phones without the need for authorization from or the blessing of the FCC; although, the test cited here was coordinated with the FCC:

Bureau of Prisons Tests Micro-Jamming Technology in South Carolina Prison to Prevent Contraband Cell Phones

This week, the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) conducted a pilot test of micro-jamming technology at the Broad River Correctional Institution in Columbia, S.C. The test – the first collaboration of this kind in a state corrections facility – was conducted to determine if micro-jamming could...

www.justice.gov