Police Scanners illegal, but not radar detectors?

[hp8920]

Yeah, lidar can be jammed legally since there's no FCC for light.

What the new thing is simply to use radars that are very similar to vehicle radars. Two common systems in use are known as MRCD and MRCT, they use the frequency-stepped radar that anti-collision systems use, and being spread-spectrum they're robust to interference (e.g. other cars), and more difficult to detect.

I'm also predicting calibrated camera systems, again, like your car uses for forward anti-collision. That's completely passive.

In the US, forward collision systems have been required on new cars since 2022, EU is following in 2024 and Australia in 2025. So eventually the cops will use the technology that every car has to use anyway, so there's no way to detect that.

 

[avaloncourt]

Be very glad that only the staties can run radar (on interstates and no rolling radar). It keeps the locals from turning the interstate into a cash cow. Look at Linndale, Ohio. 422 yards of interstate keeps this Village of a little over 100 people going with 80% of it's $1 million budget.

State Police in Pennsylvania can run radar wherever they want that is defined as a state route (which is most of the state). There has been legislation entered over and over to allow local to have radar but it gets knocked down every single time due to state police lobbying. Locals can still use certified speedometer, speed strips and VASCAR.

 

[KK4JUG]

Yeah, lidar can be jammed legally since there's no FCC for light.

Is it legal to interfere with a police enforcement activity?

 

[avaloncourt]

I was under the impression that some radar detectors can detect lidar.

Thanks
Joel

Oh, they can detect LIDAR but it's just an early warning notification that you need to get out your license and registration. By the time you hear the alert from the detector, they already have you.

 

[SurgePGH]

State Police in Pennsylvania can run radar wherever they want that is defined as a state route (which is most of the state). There has been legislation entered over and over to allow local to have radar but it gets knocked down every single time due to state police lobbying. Locals can still use certified speedometer, speed strips and VASCAR.

PSP can run radar on any road BUT must be stationary. They have a couple LIDAR units but resource share them throughout the state and you RARELY ever see them. New Jersey police (all of them) can run radar even while moving. PA Municipal police can use stationary, remote, laser detection the type that get setup on the road and transmit to a patrol vehicle. They look like a four foot level with tiny legs on them. I'm not even certain that they actually use laser more so a beam of light between the transmitter and receiver. VASCAR is the go-to for MOST municipal police in PA.

 

[SurgePGH]

Embarassingly enough, I've been stopped for speeding a couple of times in New York State and the LEOs never mentioned the radar detector sitting on my dash.

They are only illegal in a few states. I believe DC and Virginia are the two. In all of the other states if you do get a ticket while having a radar detector in plain sight it's sort of a HaHa for the officer.

 

[hp8920]

Is it legal to interfere with a police enforcement activity?

States would have to pass a law making laser jammers illegal, and only a few states have that. For radar jammers, the FCC already has authority under the Communications Act. In fact, RF jammers are banned under CFR regulations, so they could seize one under a warrantless search (inspection), and changes could be done under the rulemaking process without going through Congress.

Otherwise what charge would it fall under? It's not interfering with emergency communications, it's not resisting arrest.

 

[GadgetGeek]

This is just the weirdest thing. So, as you know in the states of, Florida, Indiana, Kentucky, Minnesota, and New York; Having a police scanner that is active in your car is illegal, because it will make it easy to circumvent speed traps...which is literally the same exact thing radar detectors do but there legal in those same states? I just don't understand, i've had this question for a while ever since I learned about this. To me, this is the weirdest legal bias i've ever seen. Could anybody explain why this is a thing?

In some states if you're an amateur radio operator you can have a scanner in your vehicle.

I guess I'm lucky because in my state scanners and radar detectors are legal.

 

[KK4JUG]

States would have to pass a law making laser jammers illegal, and only a few states have that. For radar jammers, the FCC already has authority under the Communications Act. In fact, RF jammers are banned under CFR regulations, so they could seize one under a warrantless search (inspection), and changes could be done under the rulemaking process without going through Congress.

Otherwise what charge would it fall under? It's not interfering with emergency communications, it's not resisting arrest.

States already have laws regarding interference with the police. They're broad statutes and don't list specific activity.

 

[hp8920]

States already have laws regarding interference with the police. They're broad statutes and don't list specific activity.

If that applied, they should have arrested everybody who worked at Nextel and had a Nextel phone.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Is it legal to interfere with a police enforcement activity?

States would have to pass a law making laser jammers illegal, and only a few states have that. For radar jammers, the FCC already has authority under the Communications Act. In fact, RF jammers are banned under CFR regulations, so they could seize one under a warrantless search (inspection), and changes could be done under the rulemaking process without going through Congress.

Otherwise what charge would it fall under? It's not interfering with emergency communications, it's not resisting arrest.

States already have laws regarding interference with the police. They're broad statutes and don't list specific activity.

Wouldn't it technically be Obstruction? You can't tell a wanted person that you heard them looking for him somewhere and tell him to get away from the area, so why should you be allowed to jam law enforcement equipment, regardless of what it is?

 

[JethrowJohnson]

If that applied, they should have arrested everybody who worked at Nextel and had a Nextel phone.

Was that interference intentional? If so, I agree, but if it wasn't intended then they shouldn't be punished for something they didn't mean to do.

 

[KK4JUG]

If that applied, they should have arrested everybody who worked at Nextel and had a Nextel phone.

You're kidding, of course.

Laws are frequently worded in such a way as to include many scenarios. Enforcement is based not on the letter of the law, but rather the intent of the law.

An "Interference" statute pretty much works that way. It's not resisting arrest. That has it's own law. Interference is any intentional act that prevents or tries to prevent an officer from doing a police-related task. It has nothing to do with Nextel or the FCC.

Lacking a specific law regarding jamming, an interference law would probably work.

 

[avaloncourt]

States would have to pass a law making laser jammers illegal, and only a few states have that.

Actually, quite a few states have laws making laser jammers illegal:

Are Radar And Laser Jammers Legal? | K40 Electronics

Although police can use either radar or laser guns to determine your speed, there are distinct differences in how they are used. Learn more from K40 today.

k40.com

 

[hp8920]

You're kidding, of course.

Laws are frequently worded in such a way as to include many scenarios. Enforcement is based not on the letter of the law, but rather the intent of the law.

An "Interference" statute pretty much works that way. It's not resisting arrest. That has it's own law. Interference is any intentional act that prevents or tries to prevent an officer from doing a police-related task. It has nothing to do with Nextel or the FCC.

Nope. As you say, it's the intent of the law. The laws were intended and are applied to things like physically getting in the way of a police officer during an arrest. The laws predate lidar. The fact that states have anti-jammer laws only supports my argument.

I didn't wash my car, so my license plate is dirty, reducing the range of lidar. Jail for me?

They're broad statutes and don't list specific activity.

And that hurts your point. Vague and overbroad laws are unconstitutional.

Vagueness doctrine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Actually, quite a few states have laws making laser jammers illegal:

11/50

 

[avaloncourt]

11/50

That's 22%. So, almost a quarter of the states. That's not a "few".

 

[KevinC]

If that applied, they should have arrested everybody who worked at Nextel and had a Nextel phone.

And Verizon and ATT and dozens of other cellular carriers. Contrary to popular belief it wasn't just Nextel that caused interference in the 800 band.

 

[hp8920]

Wouldn't it technically be Obstruction? You can't tell a wanted person that you heard them looking for him somewhere and tell him to get away from the area, so why should you be allowed to jam law enforcement equipment, regardless of what it is?

I play loud music in my club, and an officer comes in and can't hear his radio. Is that a crime?

Anyway, this has nothing to do at all with my real point that any detection method is becoming irrelevant when everybody's car now is required by law to have technology to measure the speeds of other cars. Cops already have adopted similar radar technology which makes it very difficult to find, both due to spread-spectrum and clutter from other users.

 

[KK4JUG]

And that hurts your point. Vague and overbroad laws are unconstitutional
____________________________________________________

And yet they're still on the books.

 

[bob550]

And due to the nature of LIDAR being light and not a radio signal, jamming is also legal. Active LIDAR jammers are pretty effective I hear.

There's also a product that's been around for many years called Veil. It's a coating that's applied to your licence plates and headlights that is supposed to absorb the lidar beam.