Pre-Amp Question

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Jake68111

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I hope this is the right forum to post this question...

I'm looking at getting a pre amp and was wondering if these can damage a scanner?

Are they worth the price? I see ScannerMaster has a unit, the Jim M75, listed for $199.95.

I have been scanning for a while and have never used one.

If someone could give me some insight into pre amps that would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance.
 

loumaag

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Your original choice of forum was not correct; however, I moved it for you.
 

mule1075

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I have used a few different preamps and have had great success.Now that being said your results may be different.As to is the JIM M75 worth the price from Scannermaster i would say no i bought mine from the UK and it was $105 and some change shipped but that was 16 months ago so the prices might have went up.Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
 

popnokick

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A preamp will not damage a scanner. However keep in mind that it will amplify not only the desired signals but also the noise. If you have an external antenna with a coaxial feedline, all of the noise in the feedline will be amplified IF you put the preamp at the scanner end of the coax. For this reason it's better to use a preamp installed at the antenna before the feedline.
BEST practice is to use a good antenna and quality low loss coax first... Then a preamp only if you really need it. Connecting a preamp at the scanner end of the coax and with a sub-par antenna on the other end may actually worsen your reception.
In addition, if you have strong paging or broadcast transmitters getting in to your system the preamp may worsen the problem.
Tell us more about your setup (scanner, antenna, coax, where antenna is mounted, agency/frequencies you're trying to hear more strongly) and you'll get more informed replies regarding whether and which preamp might help.

FROM THE RADIOREFERENCE WIKI:
Do I need an amplifier for my system?
Hooking up an antenna outdoors, nice and high and away from obstructions, along with buying the right coax cable, are the best ways to increase the range of what you hear. The ScanTenna(c) and various discones (such as those made by Diamond or Icom) are very popular, but there are others as well. Check the Scanner Antennas article for more. Be sure to buy the best coax you can - using cheap RG-58U or 59U at high frequencies can be very costly in terms of signal loss. Avoid amplifiers if you can, particularly if you live in an urban environment. These can cause issues with overloading and other complications.
 
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Jake68111

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Well, I'd be using it directly from the scanner to the antenna. Not running any coax.

Now knowing whats been said, my only concern would be how well it would work for me... LOL

I know no one will be able to tell me that so now I'll just battle myself and wonder if the increase in signal is worth the cost of adding the pre-amp.....

Ughhhhh. LOL

Thanks for all the help.
 

popnokick

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Adding a preamp to a telescoping antenna that plugs into the back of the scanner is going to have little effect other than amplifying the many sources of noise in the immediate vicinity of the scanner. You'll get a better result from an external antenna outside the building if possible.... although indoor antennas can do well if mounted in an attic. And antennas are usually far fewer $$$ than preamps.
 

Jake68111

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I see what you are saying.

If I go that route, I'd have to worry about the elements, lightning and the protection from it, the installation... Seems like a whole new, bigger can of worms. The price of that would also be worrisome as I know I couldn't do it myself.

Maybe thats my problem. I'm viewing a pre-amp as a quick and easy substitute to actually getting a good external antenna mounted on the roof of my home.......
 

rbm

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While I'm a believer in a good preamp (at the antenna), I wouldn't (normally) recommend a pre-amp for the use you mentioned.
I've tried pre-amps with indoor antennas and they can be problematic.

However I'm always FOR experimenting. Even though some experiments fail, you learn something from each.
$199 is a steep price for an experiment though.

Keep in mind that the difference between acceptable gain and too much gain can sometimes be just a few dB.
You can reference my posts in this thread to see the problems that just 2.5 dB can cause.
http://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-scanners/263656-antenna-close-call-hits.html#post1943657

If you want to give it a try, I'd use a combination of an RF Bay, Inc. LNA-1000 ($105 on ebay, plus adapters) and a variable attenuator.

Rich

Edit: Here's an example of what that preamp, an outside Scantenna, an FM trap, and variable attenuator is capable of.
This is reception of one Military Satellite using a $15 USB receiver on that kind of antenna system.
(The RF gain is turned way down for the video )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p5IURvNhP0
 
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zz0468

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Since scanners are already pretty sensitive, a preamp should only be used to solve a particular problem. If the signals that you want to hear are already fully quieting the receiver, but just don't make enough "bars" on the s-meter, a preamp won't help you. If the signals are 'hissy', it might, depending on the preamp.

Here's a few things to keep in mind. It's probably over some readers heads, but here's the facts:

A preamp MUST have a lower noise figure specification than the receiver, or it won't actually be helping. If the preamp doesn't list it's noise figure, then don't buy it. Period. Your scanner noise figure is probably 4-6 db.

The only gain required is just enough for the preamp to overcome the noise figure of the receiver. No more. A 1 db NF preamp with 10 db gain is better than a 3 db NF preamp with 25 db gain. Lots better. The lower the noise figure, the better the preamp. Do not buy a 4 db NF, 25 db gain preamp and put it on your receiver and declare that "it works!" just because you have "more bars". That's not how it works. Base your success (or failure) on how well you're hearing weak signals with and without the preamp. Additional interference and intermod=failure, even if you're hearing weaker signals.

A preamp should always have a filter in front of it to avoid overload. This means your multiband scanner will be reduced to a single band. If you live in a really quiet area with no nearby cell sites or other transmitters, you might get away with a broadband preamp and no filter, but don't be surprised if that makes things worse.

There is a specification for how much overload a preamp can tolerate. It's called IP3. The higher the number the better.
 

popnokick

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 6_1_3 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B329 Safari/8536.25)

Here's a dirt simple and very low cost antenna that can be hung in a window or sliding glass door... indoors. No lightning or grounding worries (2nd version shown in the RR Wiki article below). You can even use an old TV "rabbit ears" antenna. If you get it into a window, sliding door, or attic it WILL perform better than the telescoping antenna on the back of the scanner.
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Homebrewed_Off-Center_Fed_Dipole
 
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