Presidential Limo Radios

[surfacemount]

I remember having a conversation with someone in the know about the subject, regarding who may be operating he Watchtower vehicle. It is obviously tasked with radio frequency jamming and it would be technically illegal for a US Federal employee to operate such device. Speculation is that its manned by US military personnel.

Well, recall that the WHCA office is staffed by military members...
I just worry about them. They are all probably sterile now lol
I've never really participated in a technical discussion of what the antennas may be. Lot of data on where and when the packages (they didn't always go in a dedicated vehicle, and there are flyaway kits for overseas site trips) were made. Colinear are probably pretty academic. Can't say that I've seen the crockpot ones in a CREW environment. Also, not much on TIGERWALL publicly available, either.
Also, I would have expected warts on the engine bay hood, or rear quarter panel exhaust grates like on old phone company vans, and for the same reasons, but I've never seen a WATCHTOWER set up like that. Doesn't mean there's not a generator on board, just that it doesn't appear to be obvious.

Oh - second edit. There is a way for non-mil personnel to operate CREW. Bomb squads have done it for years. But I still think they just put it on WHCA mil attache types due to the classification of the threat fills and the system is probably cribbed from something greenside uses, anyway

Those small stubby antenna portables in the suburban in the pic are the ones I was told were the L band portables.

I thought you may have appreciated that photo. I am still learning about them. My experience with SATCOM on the move has been... less than stellar, over the years. Very cool how small it's shrunk, but without an active antenna, not very consistent. And impossible from inside anything. Especially anything moving. (shrugs)

 

[prcguy]

What band(s) are you referring to for satcom on the move?

My experience with SATCOM on the move has been... less than stellar, over the years. Very cool how small it's shrunk, but without an active antenna, not very consistent. And impossible from inside anything. Especially anything moving. (shrugs)

 

[surfacemount]

I have a globalstar handheld terminal, a suitcase style inmarsat, and recently have been doing some iridium stuff.

 

[TDR-94]

And you know this because of personal familiarity with the product line, or because of what they put out in their unclass brochures? I ask, because it doesn't square up with what I have heard (I have no personal knowledge to relate here)

They wouldn't need to hide the fact if their products were indeed TYPE-1 capable.

I've also seen their video where they have Thales "TYPE-1" SPEAR radios hooked to the MPU-5 and the TYPE-1 "component" has been zeroized in the Thales radios. Probably because the MPU-5 doesn't support TYPE-1 and quite probable that Persistant Systems, themselves, probably don't have the "needed" requirements to be able to manufacturer units with TYPE-1 capability or use a TYPE-1 "initialized" radio with it from other manufactures.

Their same products are also sold for commercial applications.

 

[TDR-94]

There are many different MANET and or Ad-hoc systems being used by the military. There are also many different types of radios that support these types of systems. I could only find one radio type that indicated support for TYPE-1 COMSEC capability and that was the (now defunct) PRC-154 Rifleman (SRW) radio, in particular, the General Dynamics version. It also supported TYPE-2 COMSEC, but the radio was not to be utilized for transferring "Classified" data or voice.

It seems most of these types of MANET or Ad-hoc systems are not able to be, or are not intended to be, utilized for the transferring of "Classified" data or voice anyway. Seems "Sensitive' and "Secret" information are the highest level they are utilized for. That means those systems "would be" utilizing TYPE-2 (Suite-B) COMSEC algorithms like AES, SHA and RSA and not any TYPE-1 algorithms that are certified for the transfer of "Classified" data and voice.

So that would most likely explain why the Persistent Systems units aren't utilizing TYPE-1 COMSEC either.

 

[surfacemount]

They wouldn't need to hide the fact if their products were indeed TYPE-1 capable.

In my opinion, not every manufacturer advertises their complete capabilities, for various reasons. But they are not legally required to.

Persistant Systems, themselves, probably don't have the "needed" requirements to be able to manufacturer units with TYPE-1 capability

It wouldn't be too difficult to determine if they had adequate facilities, but I don't have the time to devote to it.

I could only find one radio type that indicated support for TYPE-1 COMSEC capability

There are several. Anything with the Harris Sierra II chip in it probably can.

It seems most of these types of MANET or Ad-hoc systems are not able to be, or are not intended to be, utilized for the transferring of "Classified" data or voice anyway. Seems "Sensitive' and "Secret" information are the highest level they are utilized for. That means those systems "would be" utilizing TYPE-2 (Suite-B) COMSEC algorithms like AES, SHA and RSA and not any TYPE-1 algorithms that are certified for the transfer of "Classified" data and voice.

So that would most likely explain why the Persistent Systems units aren't utilizing TYPE-1 COMSEC either.

There are multiple systems of mesh network systems that do nothing but send high side data streams.

'Sensitive' is not a classification in the US. SECRET is. You can't legally process SECRET on Type II (old suite B) systems.

As to the final sentence, I will respectfully disagree.

Fun thread though. Any more pics or info on the topic?

 

[prcguy]

The satcom I was referring to in the Roadrunner is UHF. The older vehicles would have used a Motorola LST-5 series satcom radio with built in Type 1 encryption. The HF radio had encryption but the model does not support internal Type 1, so they either use the lower level built in, or an external Type 1 crypto box or they run unencrypted. We will never know.

I have a globalstar handheld terminal, a suitcase style inmarsat, and recently have been doing some iridium stuff.

 

[TELCO1]

thanks, explains alot . a massive switchboard.

also learned it has L band capability, and each secret service vehicle in the motorcade has a cache of L band portables, so when out of repeater range (or out of the country) or a huge system crash, everyone can switch over fast to the portables on L. Saw inside the suburban which follows with just 4 doors and loaded with 8500's as you pictured and a wooden box with 10 L band portable radios.

Also noticed at Albrights funeral, Bidens limo had just the two VHF, but many state SUVs had magnet mount VHF and inside was as you pictured a "portable" 8500. Also most is secret service SUVs had a magnet mount UHF.
Strange way to be interoperable, your think they would all have 8500's and 8000 portables.

WOW Low Band Portables , Wonder Who made Them ? KENWOOD is the only L Band Guy out their , But Mobiles for CHIPS in Calif. at $3500.00 + per unit , Hummm ? Feedback on the Mfg. of those L Band Portables would be nice , What split Low ,Mid, Hi , Hummm ? If they are Camo Green then Millitery gear , MOTOROLA , for that group WHCA they can order and get anything ! , Our $$ is spent well ! L Band , So empty Now you do NOT EVEN Need PL except to quite the skip !, Hey FireFox , Have your People Call My People 888-RADIO10-4 David , Lets make Low Band Great Again ! Low Band Trunking Portables ! Ohhh Yeah !

 

[TDR-94]

There are several. Anything with the Harris Sierra II chip in it probably can.

Yes, the L3HARRIS SIERRA II chip supports TYPE-1 algorithms. I was referring to MANET or Ad-hoc modes of operation "supporting" TYPE-1. Not just a radio itself supporting TYPE-1 for other waveforms. I could only find mention of TYPE-1 support for Ad-hoc on the defunct PRC-154A Rifleman Radio, in particular the SRW waveform.

'Sensitive' is not a classification in the US. SECRET is.

My mistake, I was just referring to this on the PRC-154 datasheet. I worded it wrong.

Secret or Sensitive-but-Unclassified communication for leaders or squad members in a single Non-Cryptographic Controlled Item (non-CCI) radio

You can't legally process SECRET on Type II (old suite B) systems.

nsa.gov archive from 2015, says that the Suite-B (to be replaced by CNSA) algorithm types like AES, SHA, and RSA can still be used up to TOP SECRET level through the transition period to the new CNSA algorithms, which will be quantum-resistant.

Fun thread though. Any more pics or info on the topic?

I attached the PRC-154A datasheet with the highlighted fields and the link to nsa.gov archive site.

Commercial National Security Algorithm Suite

 

[KevinC]

WOW Low Band Portables , Wonder Who made Them ? KENWOOD is the only L Band Guy out their , But Mobiles for CHIPS in Calif. at $3500.00 + per unit , Hummm ? Feedback on the Mfg. of those L Band Portables would be nice , What split Low ,Mid, Hi , Hummm ? If they are Camo Green then Millitery gear , MOTOROLA , for that group WHCA they can order and get anything ! , Our $$ is spent well ! L Band , So empty Now you do NOT EVEN Need PL except to quite the skip !, Hey FireFox , Have your People Call My People 888-RADIO10-4 David , Lets make Low Band Great Again ! Low Band Trunking Portables ! Ohhh Yeah !

It's not Low Band.

It's L-band...

L band - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[surfacemount]

I don't know how I missed that. Fifth post in almost ten years, THIS IS A GOOD THREAD

 

[ahbood]

Thanks for a great thread

 

[ladn]

This is a really informative thread.
I'm a bit surprised that the old "Yankee-Zulu" frequencies of yesteryear haven't been mentioned yet.

 

[Larry51]

This is a really informative thread.
I'm a bit surprised that the old "Yankee-Zulu" frequencies of yesteryear haven't been mentioned yet.

Just sent you a DM.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

This is a really informative thread.
I'm a bit surprised that the old "Yankee-Zulu" frequencies of yesteryear haven't been mentioned yet.

See post #15