Pro-106 Encrypted P25 System Decoding
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RickS31
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Not to mention totally illegal even if you could.
VE3JSO
Member
just keep an eye some of the modern encryptions are not that reliable and might go down from time to time like our local pd
What modern encryptions go down? I've never heard of something like that...
Moto's DES sometimes fails on one side or the other,allowing one side of comms to be in the clear. A pd up north where I'm from uses saber and astros and the sabers frequently lose the encryption key,allowing an officer to hear the confirm beep to indicate private even though it's not active.
I've heard some interesting "one-sided" traffic this way,lol!
n9zas
RadioDaze
Member
This whole encryption question is sure getting popular lately. We live in an age where there's a culture of "anything's possible". But like keeping Lindsey Lohan substance-free, some things are just not physically possible.
Encryption hurts the long-time scanner hobbyists more than it hurts the newcomers. Someone just starting out in my vicinity would be told, no, you can't hear the cops. Oh well, what else can I hear?
But if you've listened for years and then it gets shut off overnight, that's a real bummer of a withdrawal.
Encryption hurts the long-time scanner hobbyists more than it hurts the newcomers. Someone just starting out in my vicinity would be told, no, you can't hear the cops. Oh well, what else can I hear?
But if you've listened for years and then it gets shut off overnight, that's a real bummer of a withdrawal.
True. We have one remaining pd in this area that has yet to join the starcom21 bandwagon,and when they do they will have at least on tg with encryption available (if they choose to use it)
n9zas
So, the short answer to your question is "no." The purpose of encryption if to prevent unauthorized persons from monitoring sensitive transmissions. It is unlawful to de-crypt and monitor these comms, even if you could.
A common misconception of early P25 systems was that the point of digital vocoding was to prevent unauthorized listening. In fact, some radio salesmen used this as a marketing feature. At the time, it was deemed legit since no digital scanners had been marketed.
Now, more and more radio systems are built with blanket encryption, causing great hardships for our hobby. Many police comms are blanket encrypted, despite the fact that 90% of said comms are far from sensitive.
It's a highly-talked-about topic, wpmann, and you should use forum search tools to read up more about it if you're really interested.
fourthhorseman
Member
i have to passionately disagree,
as recent as 24 months ago,i posted a question..
With a Disc-Tap can one use software and an Analog
radio to decode P25,,
got the same replies,absolutely Not...
so let me ask,anyone heard of DSD?...lol
sky's the limit baby,,,we are livin,not in the golden
age or even platinum,,were in the age of palladium!
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the question is though, is the P25 traffic encrypted or just digital, these are 2 TOTALLY different things. if it is just digital P25, then a P25 capable scanner can decode it. if it is encrypted, then you won't decode it. i have not fooled with it, but i though DSD was googd for decoding TRBO and other digital audio, but not encrytion.
Of course... You just have to have the necessary software. Whoever told you it cannot was simply not aware of what was involved. Any quotes here to track that down? Who did you ask?
Decoding encryption? No. Never.
SkipSanders
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Summary:
You can listen to P25 Digital. You canNOT listen to P25 Encrypted.
Digital is a modulation method. That's what P25 capable scanners decode. Encrypted is a system imposed ONTO the P25 'digital' stream, making it impossible to decode, unless you have both the needed hardware, software, AND the ever-changing complex key to the encryption.
It is, of course, also illegal to decrypt encrypted communications in the USA unless you have the permission of the people using it.
The Pro-106 is a P25 capable scanner. It can decode P25 digital communications. Neither it, nor any other scanner, can decrypt ENCRYPTED P25 digital communications.
The software packages sometimes mentioned here are ways to decode P25 Digital, or sometimes other digital modes (at least they're trying) like Provoice... but they do not let you decrypt encrypted versions of these digital modes, only decode the base digital modulation.
You can listen to P25 Digital. You canNOT listen to P25 Encrypted.
Digital is a modulation method. That's what P25 capable scanners decode. Encrypted is a system imposed ONTO the P25 'digital' stream, making it impossible to decode, unless you have both the needed hardware, software, AND the ever-changing complex key to the encryption.
It is, of course, also illegal to decrypt encrypted communications in the USA unless you have the permission of the people using it.
The Pro-106 is a P25 capable scanner. It can decode P25 digital communications. Neither it, nor any other scanner, can decrypt ENCRYPTED P25 digital communications.
The software packages sometimes mentioned here are ways to decode P25 Digital, or sometimes other digital modes (at least they're trying) like Provoice... but they do not let you decrypt encrypted versions of these digital modes, only decode the base digital modulation.
Anybody remember way back when... we were told NO scanner would ever be able to follow the new 800 Mhz trunking systems? And not that I agree or disagree... just because something is against the law doesn't mean it can't be done. Wasn't there something about "you can't listen to cell phones on your scanner" too?!
And not that I agree or disagree... just because something is against the law doesn't mean it can't be done. Wasn't there something about "you can't listen to cell phones on your scanner" too?!
RadioDaze
Member
Thanks for reiterating that, Skip.
In all these thought experiments with the key being brute-force cracked, and the perception that it just comes down to enough time and computer horsepower, what gets lost is the fact that the crack would have to be repeated daily. Reliably. So if you can hypothetically crack it in 23 hours, you get one nice hour of illegal monitoring.
Even if things are possible, they aren't always practical.
Best way to hear encrypted transmissions: get a job with your local PD.
Strange - whoever told you that had no knowledge of scanners and standards... I have a newsletter from Michigan State Police about the MPSCS system (first statewide P25, which started back in the 90's) and it notes that" no scanner is available now but will likely be in the future."
I'd love to see you listen to any new cellphone on your scanner.
You can't.
You'll never be able to listen to encrypted P25 audio, even if they do make it legal.
Actually, if the user loses the key that user will not be able to decode anything. What happens is the user bumps the secure switch and for whatever reason doesn't realize it.
Point taken rdale. I was just saying when it became unlawful to monitor 800 Mhz cell phone frequencies... the next route were scanner mods. And yes... analog back then but still against the law. Tons of folks did it anyway. Next came no manufacturing of scanners that could receive cellular. But then there were special full band radios available for certain agencies. As far as trunking... I was thinking about when Motorola first came out with the trunking concept before P25 even existed. It took awhile before you could buy a scanner capable of monitoring the new trunking systems. There always seems to be a new system... and then a scanner follows to monitor it. Everyone knows it's unlawful to monitor encrypted radio traffic. But that doesn't mean somebody won't do it. Sort of... if there's a will... there's a way. Never really doesn't mean never... does it?!
I was just saying when it became unlawful to monitor 800 Mhz cell phone frequencies... the next route were scanner mods. And yes... analog back then but still against the law. Tons of folks did it anyway. Next came no manufacturing of scanners that could receive cellular. But then there were special full band radios available for certain agencies. As far as trunking... I was thinking about when Motorola first came out with the trunking concept before P25 even existed. It took awhile before you could buy a scanner capable of monitoring the new trunking systems. There always seems to be a new system... and then a scanner follows to monitor it. Everyone knows it's unlawful to monitor encrypted radio traffic. But that doesn't mean somebody won't do it. Sort of... if there's a will... there's a way. Never really doesn't mean never... does it?! Never only means never when you talk about encryption Then it really means "never"
Then it really means "never"- Status
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