Problems with aricraft monitoring.

[lil_jimmy_norton]

Ok, my equipment is a PRO-2052 and a RS MagMount Scanner antenna. I'm trying to monitor Lexington Airport (Roughly 10 miles from me), but I just get broken transmissions form the Aircraft side, and almost nothing from the controllers.

thought it may be something to do with my antenna or something not being up to par, until I started scanning Louisville's airport freqs, and get them crystal clear from 80+ miles.

Could the signals from the the lexington tower be too strong? If so is there anything I can do about it that won't kill my monitoring of public safety? I've looked and can't find any sort of attenuation for the 2052, but I could be missing it.

 

[Yokoshibu]

are you los (line of sight) to the airport? I am 7 miles from one 2 from the other and 16 to a third... I get the two airports at 7 and 16 miles cause I am on a ridge overlooking that direction but the one at 2 miles is in a hole and I dont get anything from the fbo or anyone on the ground taking off or landing.

It's possible it could be overloading the front end but I doubt thats whats going on... if the plane is right over you when they are talking you could be in the cone of silence.... many times if a plane turns away from you, you wont hear a darn thing...

I dunno what to tell you!

 

[lil_jimmy_norton]

I'm more or less line of sight. No large obstructions between the airport and I. I rarely hear anything from it, and when I do it's very broken, and aircraft only, nothing from the tower. I can however hear airport security operations just fine.

 

[DPD1]

Can you post a recording of what you call the 'broken transmissions'. It might be easier to figure out what the problem is. But an airport 10 miles away is sometimes far enough to not be able to hear the ground side. It all depends on the topography. But you should definitely hear all the air stuff, no problem. Does the broken aircraft stuff mainly just happen on one freq? It could be something interfering on that one freq. And on the other airport... You can hear the ground side of everything on that one? Because 80 miles would be quite a feat.

Dave
http://www.dpdproductions.com
- Custom Scanner, Aviation, MURS, GMRS, Marine & Ham Antennas -

 

[lil_jimmy_norton]

Can you post a recording of what you call the 'broken transmissions'. It might be easier to figure out what the problem is. But an airport 10 miles away is sometimes far enough to not be able to hear the ground side. It all depends on the topography. But you should definitely hear all the air stuff, no problem. Does the broken aircraft stuff mainly just happen on one freq? It could be something interfering on that one freq. And on the other airport... You can hear the ground side of everything on that one? Because 80 miles would be quite a feat.

Dave
http://www.dpdproductions.com
- Custom Scanner, Aviation, MURS, GMRS, Marine & Ham Antennas -

I'll try to get a rocording of it, but it just sounds like a far away transmission. The broken transmissions do happen on only one freq, but I also hear nothing from the airports other activer freqs. As for 10 miles being far enough for me not to hear the ground side, it makes no sense that I can hear the mobiles from security, but not the tower. The tower should be transmitting at a much higher power.

As for the other airport, I should clarify, at night I can pull it in no problems, both ground and aircraft, crystal clear, during the day I will pick up the aircraft every once and awhile, however at the same time I cannot hear the local airport.

Thanks for all the responses everyone.

 

[kicktd]

Tower communication doesn't have to be as high powered as you think. Most planes are switched over to tower around 5 miles from the airport and since the planes are higher up and LOS (Line of Sight) of the airport they receive the transmission clear.

 

[DPD1]

I'll try to get a rocording of it, but it just sounds like a far away transmission. The broken transmissions do happen on only one freq, but I also hear nothing from the airports other activer freqs. As for 10 miles being far enough for me not to hear the ground side, it makes no sense that I can hear the mobiles from security, but not the tower. The tower should be transmitting at a much higher power.

As for the other airport, I should clarify, at night I can pull it in no problems, both ground and aircraft, crystal clear, during the day I will pick up the aircraft every once and awhile, however at the same time I cannot hear the local airport.

Thanks for all the responses everyone.

Actually, those are all common occurrences with air stuff. For instance, I have a clear shot to an airport to the west, and buildings directly behind me block an airport to the east that's an equal distance. Yet, I get the airport to the east better. My guess is that, even though the ground seems fairly level in the area, the eastern airport actually sits a little bit higher in terms of altitude. Sometimes a subtle elevation that's barely noticeable can actually have a big difference. Look at the altitudes of each of your airports and see if the far one is slightly higher. Also, ground mobile comms are often higher profile. As mentioned already, they need more power for when people are walking in buildings with handhelds and stuff. The air transmissions are basically LOS, so less power is needed. In fact, if you sit at an AP, you'll notice that the towers will often have a hard time talking to guys when they're on the ground. That's because they lose LOS even just on the field, and that's enough to cut them off. You say you use a mobile antenna. I'm not sure how you have that set up, but you might try a proper base antenna with an RG8 cable. That might help things from home.

Dave
http://www.dpdproductions.com
- Custom Scanner, Aviation, MURS, GMRS, Marine & Ham Antennas -

 

[Newark777]

I've always noticed that tower reception in the airport terminal was always lower than I expected, probably because the building I was in was interfering with the signal.

 

[kicktd]

Yep sometimes even the pilots have trouble communicating with Tower/Approach/Departure ATC due to LOS issues. The reason why you can hear planes talking easier than ATC is due to the fact that the planes are higher up thus when they transmit it travels further than an earth based system.

 

[trainman111]

Which also explains if you hear an aircraft on a center frequency they could be 200 miles away. I'm about 20 miles from Richmond Int'l and the only frequency I can hear tower comms on is 134.7 which is Potomac App/Dep. That frequency covers 171 degrees to 320 degrees around the airport. I'm about 190-200 degrees from the airport so I can hear them fine. Aircraft communications is all about Line of Sight.

 

[Turbo68]

Get a Dedicated Home Base Airband Antenna an put it on a must about 6 metres high and you will not have any problems and the reason I say this I live in Melbourne Australia and the main Airport from me is about 80 kilometres away and I got 3 Custom made Antennas for the Airband and the controllers sound like they are next to me and I can hear the Aircraft on the ground getting clearance from controllers with excellent reception and no hiss in the background and the Antennas are about 7 metres high.

Lino (Melbourne Australia)

 

[adkad]

Yes-I got a dedicated airband antenna from England and am 50 miles from airports and I get four of them quite clearly, controllers and planes. I have the antenna 30 feet up. I must add, however, that even with that set up my rs2096 does not pick up any of the controllers of any airport. I had to get a really good receiver to go with the antenna before it worked well. I was very disappointed in the 2096 which receives a great deal but never the airports. Adkad

 

[JoeyC]

As for 10 miles being far enough for me not to hear the ground side, it makes no sense that I can hear the mobiles from security, but not the tower. The tower should be transmitting at a much higher power.

Thanks for all the responses everyone.

Security most likely doesn't use AM modulation and they aren't transmitting on the aero band.

If you want to hear tower ATC from 80 miles away, get an antenna WAYYY up in the air. Hell, I can almost never hear the tower side of the airport 5 miles from me due to terrain, but I hear planes in the air on approach to LAX or ONT and further from more than 100 miles away.

If the tower transmit power weren't adequate, it would probably be adjusted, but its purpose isn't to transmit to ground units off of the airport property.

 

[lil_jimmy_norton]

Security most likely doesn't use AM modulation and they aren't transmitting on the aero band.

If you want to hear tower ATC from 80 miles away, get an antenna WAYYY up in the air. Hell, I can almost never hear the tower side of the airport 5 miles from me due to terrain, but I hear planes in the air on approach to LAX or ONT and further from more than 100 miles away.

If the tower transmit power weren't adequate, it would probably be adjusted, but its purpose isn't to transmit to ground units off of the airport property.

I believe you misunderstood me. I CAN hear the one from 80 miles away, I connot hear the one less than 10 miles away.

 

[Turbo68]

The most important thing in communications is the Antenna and it does not matter what Receiver you got.I got a friend which got an ICOM-R9000 and he does not have a good Antenna on it and he does not pick anything up at all and he only lives about a kilometre from me and recentley he bought an RFI Ground Plane Antenna for the Airbands and put it on a pole 8 metres high and now he realises what he has been missing when it comes to receiving good signals and the company which he bought the radio from supply Antennas for a lot of goverment departments and defence departments and a lot off overseas customers and even the police.

Regards Lino(Melbourne Australia) AOR-3000A,AOR-8200MK3,ICOM-R5,ICOM-R20,ICOM-R9000,ICOM-PCR1000,ICOM-R2500,UNIDEN-UBC245,UNIDEN-UBC780,UNIDEN-UBCD396,UNIDEN-UBCD996,RADIO SHACK-PRO97,RADIO SHACK-PRO2035,MAYCOM-AR108,YAESU-VR500

ANTENNAS:1 DIAMOND-D150 DISCONE,1 COMET-DS3000 DISCONE,2 ICOM-AH7000,2 RFI AIRBAND GROUND PLANES,1 POLAR AIRBAND DIPOLE,1 GROVE FLEX ANTENNA

 

[JoeyC]

I believe you misunderstood me. I CAN hear the one from 80 miles away, I connot hear the one less than 10 miles away.

I don't think I misunderstood, but you are mixing apples with oranges.

You can't hear the ATC traffic from 10 miles away, but you can hear security traffic from 80 miles away. Different radios systems, different modes, different frequencies.

 

[trainman111]

No he's not mixing apples and oranges. In post #5, he clearly states he can hear aircraft and ground comms from the "other" airport (the one 80 miles away). Where in this thread did he state he could hear security comms at 80 miles away?

 

[lil_jimmy_norton]

I don't think I misunderstood, but you are mixing apples with oranges.

You can't hear the ATC traffic from 10 miles away, but you can hear security traffic from 80 miles away. Different radios systems, different modes, different frequencies.

No, once again you are misunderstanding. I CAN head air traffic from 80 miles away. I CAN hear the security traffic from the aitport 10 miles away. I cannot hear air traffic from the airport 10 miles away.

 

[kicktd]

My antenna is about 25-30FT in the air and I can hear all of the state wide system here even places 100+ miles away but I can't hear New Orleans App/Dep/Tower and I'm about 50 miles from the airport.

As for you being able to hear the other airport some 80 miles away who knows their system might have to output on a higher power. With ATC it really is hit and miss and you might be able to pick 1 airport up even if it is far away but not pick up another closer.

EDIT: Do you know which ATC Freq you are picking up from Louisville? Or is it all of them?

 

[lil_jimmy_norton]

My antenna is about 25-30FT in the air and I can hear all of the state wide system here even places 100+ miles away but I can't hear New Orleans App/Dep/Tower and I'm about 50 miles from the airport.

As for you being able to hear the other airport some 80 miles away who knows their system might have to output on a higher power. With ATC it really is hit and miss and you might be able to pick 1 airport up even if it is far away but not pick up another closer.

EDIT: Do you know which ATC Freq you are picking up from Louisville? Or is it all of them?

Mailnly 132.075, seldom on any other freq. Only traffic I can ever hear form LEX is 120.7500, and that is rare.