ProVoice

[epfdtracktrunker]

Ok, First let me say that this question is meant to be answered regardless of the fact that most scanner listeners are sour at MaCom for not making a digital voice standard that can be monitored with a scanner. Please dont be bias.


Which is a better system: P25, EDACS ProVoice, or OpenSky? Which one provides the most feature-rich platform, best quailty sound, and flexibility of use?

REMEMBER! Please dont be bias because you cant actually track the system.

Any replies will be greatly appreciated.

 

[N_Jay]

Ok, First let me say that this question is meant to be answered regardless of the fact that most scanner listeners are sour at MaCom for not making a digital voice standard that can be monitored with a scanner. Please dont be bias.


Which is a better system: P25, EDACS ProVoice, or OpenSky? Which one provides the most feature-rich platform, best quality sound, and flexibility of use?

REMEMBER! Please don't be bias because you cant actually track the system.

Any replies will be greatly appreciated.

Better for what?

Each has advantages and disadvantages.

In general EDACS Provoice would be at the bottom of those three, unless you had some specific need like Older EDACS compatibility.

P25 is preferred for most systems today, but if you really want/need a TDMA system with a Cellular architecture then you have to chose between OpenSky and iDEN/Harmony. (or TETRA outside North America)

 

[n4voxgill]

They are similar in nature. analog vs analog and digital vs digital. The big advantage of P25 is that you have multiple manufactuers that you can buy equipment from. The competition helps constrain prices. macom loves to sell non-P25 as they have you locked in and they make more money off of you in the future as you must buy your mobiles and portables from them. With the P25 system there are several manufactuers of mobiles and portables and now even a second company selling base station equipment. Macom is now even offering P25 if pushed so they are the third company, but they prefer to sell dual operating and only use P25 for interoperability.

 

[tglendye]

MA/Com & P25

This question is kind of in line with what I wanted to ask.

My area is going to a MA/Com, digital system. I was assuming Pro-Voice, but I don't know those specifics. Now I've seen where either the system is going to be P25, the radios are, or both.

If the system is a MA/Com digital, what does that mean for the scanner listener? I know it is very unlikely that scanner manufactures will be able to make a scanner that receives provoice (I've seen the debates on that...), but is a MA/Com P25 system different and can it be monitored?

Thanks,
Todd

 

[N_Jay]

This question is kind of in line with what I wanted to ask.

My area is going to a MA/Com, digital system. I was assuming Pro-Voice, but I don't know those specifics. Now I've seen where either the system is going to be P25, the radios are, or both.

If the system is a MA/Com digital, what does that mean for the scanner listener? I know it is very unlikely that scanner manufactures will be able to make a scanner that receives provoice (I've seen the debates on that...), but is a MA/Com P25 system different and can it be monitored?

Thanks,
Todd

Where are you, which system are you referring to?

If it is P25 trunking then it is P25 trunking and a P25 scanner will receive it.

If it is P25 conventional the same is true.

If it is EDACS or OpenSky, with P25 in the field equipment for interoperability, then you are out of luck.

 

[n4voxgill]

macom was working on a dual operating radio that would do provoice for use on its on system and doing P25 for interoperability. I don't know if it worked or not. If it did work then scanner will only recieve the interoperability coms that you could receive on the other systems.

 

[N_Jay]

macom was working on a dual operating radio that would do provoice for use on its on system and doing P25 for interoperability. I don't know if it worked or not. If it did work then scanner will only recieve the interoperability coms that you could receive on the other systems.

M/A-COM has multimode radios that do EDACS Provoice and P25; and OpenSky and P25

Or maybe its is one product that does all three.

 

[Liberator]

The P-7100ip and M-7100ip series radios from M/A-COM are capable of ProVoice, P25 conventional and trunking, and in some cases OpenSky, depending on the flash loaded. A standard EDACS flash for the ip series will allow P25 operation as long as the feature has been enabled. I have a P-7100ip portable sitting right here next to me with all the bells and whistles turned on and it works just fine with other P25 conventional and trunking systems as well as EDACS ProVoice systems.

 

[precoislen]

This question is kind of in line with what I wanted to ask.

My area is going to a MA/Com, digital system. I was assuming Pro-Voice, but I don't know those specifics. Now I've seen where either the system is going to be P25, the radios are, or both.

If the system is a MA/Com digital, what does that mean for the scanner listener? I know it is very unlikely that scanner manufactures will be able to make a scanner that receives provoice (I've seen the debates on that...), but is a MA/Com P25 system different and can it be monitored?

Thanks,
Todd

Is that Rockingham County/ Harrisonburg going to EDACS? Dude that will suck. I can only hope that Augusta/Staunton/Waynesboro doesn't follow suit.

 

[tglendye]

Yeah, it is the Harrisonburg/ Rockingham (VA) system. Yes it does suck. I'll send an email and try to find out what type of digital it will be. I'll get back if I'm able to get the info.

When radio upgrades were originally being kicked around, I was pulling for a system like Augusta County's. I think they're staying where they are for a while- I haven't heard any talk.

 

[precoislen]

Todd... it won't be long before Augusta County follows suit. They always seem to follow the trend on what others do. Never a trend setter.

Only question will be what flavor of 800 mghz system will they go to. EDACS like Rockingham Cty, or Motorola Type II like Albemarble County.

Personally I think they should just be different all together and go LTR.

 

[tglendye]

O.K., here's the email I got from Jim Junkins. Jim's the director for the combined police, fire & rescue ECC for Harrisonburg/ Rockingham County. I didn't plan on copying/ pasting his response, so Jim- if you stumble accross this site I hope you don't mind . I wanted to copy it to make sure I didn't pass on something that I mis-interpreted

From Jim:
"You are correct in that systems can have numerous digital voice
protocols. M/A-COM's has standard and pro-voice. Pro-voice is enhanced
audio quality, is an option and one that we have selected for our
system.

P-25 and Open Sky are different beasts. P25 is a common air interface
protocol (CAI), meaning how two digital radios communicate over the air.
It has nothing to do with the voice quality nor one vendor's proprietary
protocol. It's an industry standard for interoperability. A system can
operate in a proprietary mode (M/A-COM's EDACS or Motorola's Smartnet)
as well with the P25 standard. Our system will be capable of operating
using the P25 standard. That way multiple vendor radios can
interoperate. Don't take this to mean integral users using different
brand radios. There are many drawbacks with P25. Right now it
basically provides the CAI but will not afford enhanced signaling such
as EMERGENCY CALL, private unit addressing, encryption and unit
identification. All radio vendors still have their proprietary systems
to handle the enhanced features of a system. Think of P25 of 1st grade
English. As long as you are up to the level you can talk. If you are at
a 9th grade level, you have digress in your normal capabilities, but you
can still talk to the 3rd grader.

Open Sky is actually a different model radio system from M/A-COM. It's
architecture is like a cell phone system, with many small power sites.
It has some really neat features but can be challenging to deploy in a
large rural area such as ours. It's kind of irrelevant as M/A-COM
proposed an EDACS system and not an Open Sky system in response to our
RFP.

Hope this helps.


<Jim>"

I'm taking this to mean that we are out of luck due to the pro-voice, but there may be limited P25 communications such as when outside agencies come to assist. How do you all see it?

Todd

 

[studgeman]

I can already see your repost generating a ton of posts on this topic. I encourage people to read the email a couple of times before posting.


P25 CAI specifies a specifc vocoder, the actual piece of hardware/sofware which turns audio into 1s and 0s and vis versa. The Vocoder is the single most important piece in determining audio replication. The higher quality the vocoder the more accurate the reproduction of the audio. As an intersting note. ProVoice and the P25 CAI standard specify the SAME vocoder. It is the DSVI IMBE vocoder. You should be able to expect ProVoice and P25 to have similar audio reproduction capabilities. P25 CAI also specifies two specific modulation schemes. P25 CAI also specifies the data frame format which encapsulates the payload (audio ususally) P25 CAI also specifies the error correction techniques. Emergency signaling is in P25 CAI and in P25 Trunking. Unit/Radio ID is in P25 CAI and Trunking. It is safe to assume the same feature set in Motorola type II is very similar to P25 Trunking (not by accident). Any questions ask Michigan, that is a full P25 system fully compatiable with any other P25 system of any other manufacturer with the same basic feature set that any public safety agency would need.

The P25 feature set is quite extensive and M/A com and Motorola have implimented the main public safety features that would be expected on any system. As you can see I don't agree with classifying P25 as first grade english.

 

[Liberator]

As you can see I don't agree with classifying P25 as first grade english.

It was just an analogy, nothing to get excited about. I thought it was a rather good way to explain it to someone that does not understand it.

-L

 

[N_Jay]

It was just an analogy, nothing to get excited about. I thought it was a rather good way to explain it to someone that does not understand it.

-L

Except, P25 is more like common English, while each vendors version is much like "Industry specific English" (i.e. Legal English, Engineering English, Medical English, etc.)