Quebec Gov't new allocations

[DaveH]

Was anyone aware of a bunch of UHF allocations in the 460-462
range for the Quebec Government, which seem to have disappeared
from TAFL? Callsigns included CIH211, CIH221, CIH229, CIH331;
21 frequency pairs spread over multiple sites, digital mode (F9xxx).

East of Ottawa I've heard continuous raspy grinding noise on some
of these, indicating control channels, telemetry, or MDT; didn't sound
like any known trunking formats. Not sure if they're connected with
the RENIR system, but I recall a bunch of VHF allocations which also
"disappeared" from TAFL, which seemed to include some known
channels for that system.

Speaking of which, anyone have an update on RENIR? I hear
P25 CCs in the 140-142 range, but like the Hydro-Quebec system,
not confined to 138-144MHz; there are a few around 152/153MHz.

Dave

 

[Jammin_Jay]

From what u are hearing dave, is it possible that it is comms from a tower in Riguad, Quebec.

 

[DaveH]

OK JJ, thanks for the response...you seem to know where it may be from,
any guesses as to the specific use? It is quite strong around Hawkesbury,
which makes sense as far as Rigaud goes.

For lack of anyone else knowing (or saying), I'd guess it's mobile data
for some (possibly multiple) government users...maybe even SQ?

Dave

 

[VORTAC]

Well Dave, you right. All the new data in the 460-462 mhz band (21 frequencies) is link with the RENIR. It is not trunking but mobile data (terminal).

About the RENIR, a very few services use the system right now. Everything is slow and in the final testing phase. In the Charlevoix area, the EMS use already some TG:

7501
7502
7503
7504
7505

I will put soon some systems in the Quebec database.

 

[plaws]

About the RENIR, a very few services use the system right now. Everything is slow and in the final testing phase. In the Charlevoix area, the EMS use already some TG:

What is RENIR? Different from RSP?

 

[VORTAC]

Yes, it is different.

RSP: Réseau de sécurité public - Public Security Network (Bell)

- EDACS 800 mhz 9600 bds - analog, ProVoice and encrypted TG.
- Greater Montreal and the same for Quebec. Also Sherbrooke is link to the system but it is not RSP.

RÉNIR: Réseau nationnal intégré de radiocommunication (governement communication system)

- Motorola VHF P-25 9600 bds - Digital and encrypted TG.
- 130 sites all over the Quebec province - link to the P-25 Montreal city system (use by the Montreal fire dept).
- Will move to this system soon (2008): MTQ (transports), SQ (provincial police) and others like EMS.

Only one link it is used between P-25 Montreal city system and the RSP EDACS: Montreal EMS (Urgences-santé) and the Montreal Fire dep for medical calls.

 

[DaveH]

BTW as far as RENIR, I am hearing an increasing number of P25
control channels in W. Quebec. Not sure that they are all RENIR, but
what else would most of them be....?

140.715
140.805
141.075
141.465
142.035
143.385
152.885
152.975
153.110
165.405

Dave

 

[VORTAC]

RÉNIR:

140.715 - Laurentides - Sys 261
140.805 - Mont-Rigaud - Sys 260
141.075 - Montérégie - Sys 259
141.465 - ? - Sys ?
142.035 - Rénir is not supose to go in the 142 mhz
143.385 - Montréal - Sys 256
152.885 - Lanaudière - Sys 266
152.975 - ? - Sys ?
153.110 - ? - Sys ?
165.405 - ? - Sys ?

 

[sudsyjkh]

I've joined this thing we call facebook

Was anyone aware of a bunch of UHF allocations in the 460-462
range for the Quebec Government, which seem to have disappeared
from TAFL? Callsigns included CIH211, CIH221, CIH229, CIH331;
21 frequency pairs spread over multiple sites, digital mode (F9xxx).

East of Ottawa I've heard continuous raspy grinding noise on some
of these, indicating control channels, telemetry, or MDT; didn't sound
like any known trunking formats.
Hey bud: I'm pretty sure the grinding noise you speak of is a mpt-25 control channel. THey have sites all over ottawa, east of the city and western quebec. The mpt-25 ctrl channel is quite an odd sound

 

[EricCottrell]

Reseau National Integre de Radiocommunication (RENIR)

Hello,

I was near Dorval over the weekend but only had a BC396T with me.

Reseau National Integre de Radiocommunication (RENIR)
WACN: BEE00 Sysid: 014f (hex)

Site 256
140.775 Voice
143.385 Control Channel
Talkgroup 5001 Occasional single transmissions in French (no conversations)

Site 259
141.075 Control Channel

Site 260
140.805 Control Channel
143.760 Voice
Talkgroup 1375 Fair amount of encrypted only transmissions.

I have been busy so I did not spot this thread before the trip. I would have brought another radio on the trip.

73 Eric

 

[DaveH]

RÉNIR:

142.035 - Rénir is not supose to go in the 142 mhz
?

My error, it must have been continuous voice on either Cornwall PD or Belleville
PD, during enhanced conditions. It doesn't help that I can't hear the content....oh well.

Dave

 

[DaveH]

.
East of Ottawa I've heard continuous raspy grinding noise on some
of these, indicating control channels, telemetry, or MDT; didn't sound
like any known trunking formats.
Hey bud: I'm pretty sure the grinding noise you speak of is a mpt-25 control channel. THey have sites all over ottawa, east of the city and western quebec. The mpt-25 ctrl channel is quite an odd sound

Hey Sudsy

No such thing as MPT-25. I think you're confusing it with MPT-1327. Yes there are a
bunch of MPT CC's in that range, but the sound is too raspy for those.I'd go with
VORTAC's explanation. In early morning, 461.7375 comes in and covers up some
of the low-power repeater activity in Ottawa. I also heard activity on 461.1875 and
461.2125 somewhat east of Ottawa.

Dave

 

[Jammin_Jay]

well dave, cornwall pd is apco25 Encrypted. Well belleville pd is apco25 and not encrypted. Don't know if that helps in your little investigation of what u heard on the frequency.

 

[VORTAC]

Eric said: Talkgroup 1375 Fair amount of encrypted only transmissions.

Yes, 1375 and 1377 was used by the SQ for the meeting at the Chateau Montebello.

 

[DaveH]

Eric said: Talkgroup 1375 Fair amount of encrypted only transmissions.

Yes, 1375 and 1377 was used by the SQ for the meeting at the Chateau Montebello.

That had crossed my mind, knowing of the SQ's involvement in the SSP operation.

By the way, why are VHF RENIR sites being added to the database under the SIM (Montreal
Fire) 800mHz system?

Dave

 

[mikewazowski]

Doesn't look like anybody has created a RENIR system yet.

VORTAC did mention that the system is tied to the Montreal Fire system and they seem to share a common System ID (assuming somebody has verified both the Montreal sysid and the RENIR sysid.

Motorola Smartzone systems had the capability of linking sites from different frequency bands so perhaps this is an example?

 

[DaveH]

Doesn't look like anybody has created a RENIR system yet.

VORTAC did mention that the system is tied to the Montreal Fire system and they seem to share a common System ID (assuming somebody has verified both the Montreal sysid and the RENIR sysid.

Motorola Smartzone systems had the capability of linking sites from different frequency bands so perhaps this is an example?

True, but the VHF channels don't belong to SIM. Anyone looking for RENIR
wouldn't find them; it's an attribution error in the submission. Reminds me
of the C&W commercial system 462f being incorrectly named as the
Gatineau PD, whereas they were temporary users of a few TGs. As for shared
system IDs, the database should show both systems and the searcher picks
one.

Someone with direct knowledge of the RENIR specifics (site numbers, control and
voice channels) would be better to start the database record (VORTAC, Eric?
My observations are mostly guesswork (no digital scanner and have not been
able to decode CC's using UniTrunker) and I don't submit what I can't hear/
confirm.

Along that line, I heard some P25 VC activity on 162.585 and 162.945 a week or
so ago, but might have been special conditions and hasn't been heard again (for
anyone keeping track).

Hydro-Quebec systems 4e2a (VHF) and 4d08 (850) I believe are linked
in and around Montreal. Some locations (Huntingdon, Lacolle) have both
systems and are probably linked there, although I've not seen it work that
way.

Dave

 

[mikewazowski]

Actually it was Eric that added those sites into the SIM system.

Either him and/or VORTAC will need to sort out what to do.

 

[VORTAC]

I put some changes in the Quebec database:

First: the 'Montreal fire dept' will be now title 'Ville de Montréal'. This P-25 system will be used by a lot of services soon. Since june 2007, a Montreal public security is also on the sys. All publics works will be to on this sys, one day...

About RENIR '...but the VHF channels don't belong to SIM.'
This is true. Those systems can be link together, in the futur (for exemple, if they use the same talkgroup). But, for right now, it is not the way they used.

The RENIR is now touching the last testing phase (60% of all sites are now in fonction). I will be but some systems in our database but we don't have a lot of informations about it...

 

[DaveH]

Actually it was Eric that added those sites into the SIM system.

Either him and/or VORTAC will need to sort out what to do.

Looks like we were getting our Erics crossed. I was referring to Eric Cottrell
who had gathered some detailed info.Anyway, looks like it's been sorted out.

An aside, I was west of Ottawa and into Quebec in the Shawville/Bryson area
but didn't hear anything sounding like a P25 CC, so presume the system hasn't
been rolled out any further west than the area up to just east of Gatineau.

Dave