R30 R30 simulcast problems

[kc5igh]

Hello.

I may have posted a similar question a year or two ago, so please forgive me if I'm repeating myself.

I love my R30, but I've had no success getting it to receive simulcast transmissions from a strong, nearby P25 phase 1 trunked radio system . . . and yes, I know it wasn't designed to track trunked radio systems.

The only time I've been able to hear radio traffic on this system is when I hold the R30 on one of the system's 15 output channels. I'm beginning to believe that it scans too fast for its circuitry to decode and dwell on any simulcast transmissions it encounters. It receives conventional P25 signals beautifully.

Before I try programming each output channel frequency into 15 separate banks to see if that helps, I thought it might be a good idea to see if any other R30 users/owners have had similar experiences and could pass along some ideas or recommendations.

Thanks!

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

 

[Reconrider]

The icom r30 is not a trunking scanner.
It uses SDRs, so there shouldn't be any issues of simulcast

 

[kc5igh]

The icom r30 is not a trunking scanner.
It uses SDRs, so there shouldn't be any issues of simulcast

Yes, I know the R30 is not a trunking scanner, but I'm definitely encountering problems with its ability to detect radio transmissions from my local simulcast system. I've tried all kinds of adjustments in the menu, but nothing so far has seemed to help.

Thanks.

 

[Reconrider]

Yes, I know the R30 is not a trunking scanner, but I'm definitely encountering problems with its ability to detect radio transmissions from my local simulcast system. I've tried all kinds of adjustments in the menu, but nothing so far has seemed to help.

Thanks.

I have no idea. I never had any plans to use a receiver/non-trunk unit to listen to a trunk. Even if I did, I would expect anything great.
As for the possible simulcast you're getting, what band is the system in?

 

[jaspence]

My R30 gives excellent audio on the local 800 MPSCS simulcast system. I rarely use it there, as I have better choices for trunking, but on a slow day the scan speed compensates for not missing calls.

 

[bearcatrp]

I hear most of the conversations on P25. I input all frequencies in a group besides the control channel. Works fairly well. I have 4 simulcast towers around me. I did buy the Icom software for easier input of frequencies. Got tired of doing it manually. Its worth the money. I just copy and paste.

 

[palmerjrusa]

Yes, I know the R30 is not a trunking scanner, but I'm definitely encountering problems with its ability to detect radio transmissions from my local simulcast system. I've tried all kinds of adjustments in the menu, but nothing so far has seemed to help.

Thanks.

I also have problems decoding P25 (not phase 2) transmissions on my IC-R30.
I'll have it tuned to a non-control P25 frequency and decoding is fine, then it stops even though there's signals being received. The issue is intermittent, everything will be fine then decoding stops again.
This is replicated on my IC-R8600 so it's not a problem with the receivers.
On my scanners there's no problem, everything decodes fine.
It looks to me as if it's something unique to that P25 system, all of a sudden decoding stops even though I know signals are being recieved.
I can listen to another P25 system tuned to the non-control channels just fine with either the IC-R30 or the IC-R8600.

 

[kc5igh]

I have no idea. I never had any plans to use a receiver/non-trunk unit to listen to a trunk. Even if I did, I would expect anything great.
As for the possible simulcast you're getting, what band is the system in?

The system I'm monitoring is in the 406-420 MHz range. It comes in just fine on my SDS100 and Unication G5, but I thought I'd give my R30 a try just to see what happens.

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

 

[kc5igh]

My R30 gives excellent audio on the local 800 MPSCS simulcast system. I rarely use it there, as I have better choices for trunking, but on a slow day the scan speed compensates for not missing calls.

Ditto . . . I've got better choices for trunking, but I enjoying playing with my R30, just to see what it can do.

Thanks, jaspence.

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

 

[kc5igh]

I hear most of the conversations on P25. I input all frequencies in a group besides the control channel. Works fairly well. I have 4 simulcast towers around me. I did buy the Icom software for easier input of frequencies. Got tired of doing it manually. Its worth the money. I just copy and paste.

I'm using the Icom software too . . . and I'm pretty happy with it.

Too bad they've discontinued the R30, I get a kick out of seeing what it can do on shortwave . . . not bad, considering it's size and filter limitations.

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

 

[kc5igh]

I also have problems decoding P25 (not phase 2) transmissions on my IC-R30.
I'll have it tuned to a non-control P25 frequency and decoding is fine, then it stops even though there's signals being received. The issue is intermittent, everything will be fine then decoding stops again.
This is replicated on my IC-R8600 so it's not a problem with the receivers.
On my scanners there's no problem, everything decodes fine.
It looks to me as if it's something unique to that P25 system, all of a sudden decoding stops even though I know signals are being recieved.
I can listen to another P25 system tuned to the non-control channels just fine with either the IC-R30 or the IC-R8600.

That's interesting, palmerjrusa . . . I wonder what's causing that to happen.

Are you scanning through all the non-control-channel frequencies, or are you letting your R30 sit on just one of those frequencies?

Well, I guess the good news is that we've got our trunk-tracking scanners to rely on when we're serious about monitoring any of our trunked radio systems.

Thanks.

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

 

[racingfan360]

To clarify, the Icom R30 is Triple/Double conversion superheterodyne based, not SDR:

IC-R30 | Products | Icom Inc.

Icom,Global,Land Mobile,Marine,Aviation,Amateur,Receivers,Satellite,LTE,WLAN,IP,Digital,Analog,Radio,Network,D-STAR

www.icomjapan.com

 

[MTS2000des]

No I/Q demodulation will result in exactly what is described. CQPSK isn't as "compatible" with legacy double/triple conversation discriminator tap designs of the past.

 

[kc5igh]

Hello again, everyone.

Well . . . I'm feeling a little dumber than usual at the moment.

bearcatrp's message indicated he was having success monitoring his trunked radio system after he "input all frequencies in a group besides the control channel," so I locked out the control channel and, lo and behold, I started receiving nice, clear radio transmissions on my beloved R30!

When I bought the R30 from HRO two years ago, I programmed all 15 output frequencies in that system, which included the control channel(s), and turned it loose to start scanning. The display indicated it would stop for a moment on the control channel, show a full set of signal bars, and then resume scanning. I believe that momentary pause was due to the "Voice Scan Control" feature, and it now seems remotely possible that, by locking out the control channel, the R30's ability to receive signals from the other channels somehow came back to life. Of course, that assumption is pure conjecture at this point; there may be other things going on that I simply don't know or understand.

Compared to the SDS100, the R30 is missing a lot of traffic, but what's coming through is loud and crystal clear. I still have some testing/research to do to understand this better than I do right now, but I wanted to update everyone who responded to my question and to thank each of you for taking the time to share your thoughts and ideas with me.

Special thanks to bearcatrp for sparking a fundamental programming step in my mind that I must have overlooked along the way!

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

 

[bearcatrp]

Thanks kc5igh. I do include the primary and secondary control channels in the group. Think I have about 15 such groups and link them when I'm in the area I am at. For home, I have six that are linked. The R30 has a fast scan rate. You also need to adjust wait times and such in the menu. Let me know if you need any help on that.

 

[palmerjrusa]

That's interesting, palmerjrusa . . . I wonder what's causing that to happen.

Are you scanning through all the non-control-channel frequencies, or are you letting your R30 sit on just one of those frequencies?

Well, I guess the good news is that we've got our trunk-tracking scanners to rely on when we're serious about monitoring any of our trunked radio systems.

Thanks.

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

Yep, I load up the non-control frequencies (IC-R30, IC-R8600, ARDV1) and either start scanning them or sit on one frequency.
What's strange, like I said, is that on one P25 system one frequency will be fine for a while, then it goes silent, even though I know there's something being received from the S-meter, looks like rapid brief pulses of something, but there's no audio, just the occasional beep or squeak, then the audio will come back. Then the same thing happens on another of the non-control frequencies etc.

The other P25 system I monitor, the non-control frequencies all receive voice audio just fine.

With my scanners though, there's no problem, everything works and scans as you'd expect.

 

[kc5igh]

Yep, I load up the non-control frequencies (IC-R30, IC-R8600, ARDV1) and either start scanning them or sit on one frequency.
What's strange, like I said, is that on one P25 system one frequency will be fine for a while, then it goes silent, even though I know there's something being received from the S-meter, looks like rapid brief pulses of something, but there's no audio, just the occasional beep or squeak, then the audio will come back. Then the same thing happens on another of the non-control frequencies etc.

The other P25 system I monitor, the non-control frequencies all receive voice audio just fine.

With my scanners though, there's no problem, everything works and scans as you'd expect.

Hello again, palmerjrusa.

I believe that's exactly what's happening with my Icom R3, now that I'm spending more time experimenting with the digital, simulcast, P25 Phase 1, trunked radio system I mentioned at the start of all this.

The signals that come through are perfectly loud and clear, but they're few and far between compared to my Harris, Uniden SDS100, and Unication G5 receivers. Like your R30, there's a lot of inconsistency regarding what the R30 chooses to receive clearly and what it chooses to skip over entirely.

I don't know if it's the trunked radio system itself or the R30's circuitry. Early on, it seemed to me that the problem may have been caused by the R30's super-fast scanning speed. I thought then, and still do, that the radio may not dwell on a simulcast signal long enough to sort out and lock on to strongest of the multiple input signals.

Who knows?

Thanks for your input!

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

 

[kc5igh]

Thanks kc5igh. I do include the primary and secondary control channels in the group. Think I have about 15 such groups and link them when I'm in the area I am at. For home, I have six that are linked. The R30 has a fast scan rate. You also need to adjust wait times and such in the menu. Let me know if you need any help on that.

Thanks, bearcatrp . . . I'm still working on this when I have the time.

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

 

[palmerjrusa]

Hello again, palmerjrusa.

I believe that's exactly what's happening with my Icom R3, now that I'm spending more time experimenting with the digital, simulcast, P25 Phase 1, trunked radio system I mentioned at the start of all this.

The signals that come through are perfectly loud and clear, but they're few and far between compared to my Harris, Uniden SDS100, and Unication G5 receivers. Like your R30, there's a lot of inconsistency regarding what the R30 chooses to receive clearly and what it chooses to skip over entirely.

I don't know if it's the trunked radio system itself or the R30's circuitry. Early on, it seemed to me that the problem may have been caused by the R30's super-fast scanning speed. I thought then, and still do, that the radio may not dwell on a simulcast signal long enough to sort out and lock on to strongest of the multiple input signals.

Who knows?

Thanks for your input!

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)

I think this issue is specific to this particular P25 system here, since it's replicated on my IC-R30, IC-R8600 or ARDV1.