Re-banding Simplex Freqs.

[DickH]

The Clackamas county post brought this subject of the simplex freqs. to mind.
None of the trunked systems list those freqs. and many of them are common to the 4 county systems in the Portland area; Multnomah, Washington, Clackamas and Clark (WA state).

My list may not be up to date, but here's what I have for Clackamas. I realize the new freqs. are not official yet, but I'm sure they will be.
What plans, if any, are there to add these to the database? Joe? Anyone?

OLD FREQ. NEW FREQ.
NAT CLG 866.0125 851.0125
TALK 2 866.0375 851.0375
TALK 4 866.175 851.175
NAT TAC-1 866.5125 851.5125
OR FIRE-1 866.95 851.95
NAT TAC-2 867.0125 852.0125
NAT TAC-3 867.5125 852.5125
OR LAW-1 867.7 852.7
OR LG 867.725 852.725
OR FIRE-2 867.9625 852.9625
OR LAW-2 867.9875 852.9875
NAT TAC-4 868.0125 853.0125
? R35 868.2375 853.2375
TALK 3 868.2875 853.2875
SIMPLEX 2 868.3875 853.3875
SIMPLEX 1 ? 868.4375 853.4375
Sandy HS 868.4875 853.4875
MAYDAY 868.5375 853.5375
Sandy HS 868.7375 853.7375
TALK 1 868.7875 853.7875

 

[joescanner]

Guidelines say we are not supposed to add until they become active... so as soon as someone tells me (or I hear from work) that someone has made the switch, we can get them updated.

 

[Fix_It]

You got the 15 Mhz part right. Many of the names are changing and a few of those conventionals will be going bye-bye. Yes, wait. Joe, I'll send you a PM sometime this week with what I know.

 

[DickH]

You got the 15 Mhz part right. Many of the names are changing and a few of those conventionals will be going bye-bye. Yes, wait. Joe, I'll send you a PM sometime this week with what I know.

Why not post it here, then we'll all know.

 

[joescanner]

Here's what I know about new channel nomenclature.

OLD FREQ. NEW FREQ.
NAT CLG 866.0125 851.0125
NAT TAC-1 866.5125 851.5125
NAT TAC-2 867.0125 852.0125
NAT TAC-3 867.5125 852.5125
NAT TAC-4 868.0125 853.0125

NAT CLG = ICALL
NAT TAC-1 = ITAC1
NAT TAC-2 = ITAC2
NAT TAC-3 = ITAC3
NAT TAC-4 = ITAC4

OR FIRE-1 866.95 851.95
OR LAW-1 867.7 852.7
OR LG 867.725 852.725
OR FIRE-2 867.9625 852.9625
OR LAW-2 867.9875 852.9875

OR FIRE-1 = OROPS1
OR LAW-1 = OROPS2
OR LG = OROPS3
OR FIRE-2 = OROPS4
OR LAW-2 = OROPS5

? R35 868.2375 853.2375

Hmm. Don't see this one on my list, can't help. (May be a Portland expansion channel?)

SIMPLEX 1 ? 868.4375 853.4375
SIMPLEX 2 868.3875 853.3875

Think these are disappearing in favor of using DIRect mode on the radios on the TALK channels

TALK 1 868.7875 853.7875
TALK 2 866.0375 851.0375
TALK 3 868.2875 853.2875
TALK 4 866.175 851.175

I think these are changing more significantly than just 15MHz down.

MAYDAY 868.5375 853.5375

Dick, I'll defer to you on this one, since you've got the inside info on Fire radios.

Sandy HS 868.4875 853.4875
Sandy HS 868.7375 853.7375

Hmmm... no info for these, either.

 

[jeremym70]

Another update for you

Here's what I know about new channel nomenclature.


NAT CLG = ICALL=8CALL90
NAT TAC-1 = ITAC1=8TAC91
NAT TAC-2 = ITAC2=8TAC92
NAT TAC-3 = ITAC3=8TAC93
NAT TAC-4 = ITAC4=8TAC94

OR FIRE-1 = OROPS1
OR LAW-1 = OROPS2
OR LG = OROPS3
OR FIRE-2 = OROPS4
OR LAW-2 = OROPS5


Hmm. Don't see this one on my list, can't help. (May be a Portland expansion channel?)


Think these are disappearing in favor of using DIRect mode on the radios on the TALK channels


I think these are changing more significantly than just 15MHz down.


Dick, I'll defer to you on this one, since you've got the inside info on Fire radios.


Hmmm... no info for these, either.

 

[joescanner]

Another update for you

holy spicoli. (grumble).

 

[DickH]

Here's what I know about new channel nomenclature. ...

Thanks Joe. I'll grab a copy of the most recent Fire Template later today. I know there have been lots of changes.

 

[littona]

Interop Channels

http://www.npstc.org/documents/NPSTC Channel Naming Plan- Short Name Supplemental Addendum.doc

The above link shows the "proper" naming conventions and frequencies for the ICALL/ITAC channels, as well as the other interop channels.

This one's really cool too:
http://npstc.org/documents/NIFOG v1.2 4-14-2008.pdf
It's the National Interoperability Field Operations Guide from your friends at Homeland Security.

 

[DickH]

Another update for you ...
OR FIRE-1 = OROPS1
OR LAW-1 = OROPS2
OR LG = OROPS3
OR FIRE-2 = OROPS4
OR LAW-2 = OROPS5
...

I think they are going in the wrong direction with these new names. There is no longer any specificity. Let's say at a large incident - train wreck, etc. - the cops decide to use OROPS2 and at the same time, Fire decides to use OROPS2. Result? Confusion, unless there is good coordination between the agencies, which seldom happens.

 

[DickH]

http://www.npstc.org/documents/NPSTC Channel Naming Plan- Short Name Supplemental Addendum.doc

The above link shows the "proper" naming conventions and frequencies for the ICALL/ITAC channels, as well as the other interop channels.

This one's really cool too:
http://npstc.org/documents/NIFOG v1.2 4-14-2008.pdf
It's the National Interoperability Field Operations Guide from your friends at Homeland Security.

Great find. Thanks for posting those links.

 

[joescanner]

I think they are going in the wrong direction with these new names. There is no longer any specificity. Let's say at a large incident - train wreck, etc. - the cops decide to use OROPS2 and at the same time, Fire decides to use OROPS2. Result? Confusion, unless there is good coordination between the agencies, which seldom happens.

I won't argue that (necessarily), other than to say, what happens when you need more than 2 channels for fire, but you don't need any for law enforcement (or other entities)? vice versa?

The protocols that I am familiar with state that access to the channels is primarily for mutual aid type incidents where there are incompatibilities in radio equipment that don't otherwise affect the ability to be able to communicate in conventional mode on these frequencies. BOEC does monitor them -- and the nationwide NPSPAC channels too -- (ask me how I know ) and will coordinate users, at least in the coverage area of their repeaters.

We had the same issue come up when designing our new radio templates. You have to do what you can with whats available. Personally, I think that the powers that be made the decision they did in the interest of consistency - making sure that all the radios are labelled the same way across agencies - which they most certainly are not now.

 

[DickH]

I won't argue that (necessarily), other than to say, what happens when you need more than 2 channels for fire, but you don't need any for law enforcement (or other entities)? vice versa? ...

We also have the 4 Fire Simplex freqs., (at least we did before all this re-flashing) and plenty of OPS channels if the trunk system is still working.
Hopefully, the current template will clarify things.

 

[ChrisP]

Guidelines say we are not supposed to add until they become active... so as soon as someone tells me (or I hear from work) that someone has made the switch, we can get them updated.

FYI - Joe, back in May, I heard testing on both 866.5125 and 851.5125 MHz while driving around Portland. Both were analog and showing a pl tone of 156.7 Hz. I have not heard anything on the new 851.5125 repeater since then...

- Chris

 

[DickH]

Joe,
The fire template has both the old and new abbreviations. Here are the ones pertinent to our discussion.

Portland
PF DISP
PF OPS1-12
SIMPLEX1-4
MAYDAY
OROPS1-5

Clackamas
CCOM DISP
CCOM OPS22-28
LOCOM DISP

Wash. County
WC DISP
OPS32-37

Clark County/WA state
FIRECOMM (DISP)
OPS51, 54, 55, 56
WAOPS1-5

National
ICALL
ITAC1-4

 

[Baker845]

What are the simplex 1-4 freqs? I been seeing a lot of diffent info on what those freqs are. Are they the same as Talk 1-4 ??

 

[DickH]

What are the simplex 1-4 freqs? I been seeing a lot of diffent info on what those freqs are. Are they the same as Talk 1-4 ??

What are the simplex 1-4 freqs?
They have changed twice in the past couple of years. I'll post the latest when I verify them.

Are they the same as Talk 1-4 ??
Not as far as I know. I believe TALK 1-4 are Wash. County channels.

 

[Fix_It]

Why not post it here, then we'll all know.

Because I thought we were talking about correctly updating the database, and I thought that would be best. I'll keep my official info to myself rather than add to any more confusion in a long thread of speculation. I prefer hard facts...no hard feelings though. Have fun!

 

[DickH]

Because I thought we were talking about correctly updating the database, and I thought that would be best. I'll keep my official info to myself rather than add to any more confusion in a long thread of speculation. I prefer hard facts...no hard feelings though. Have fun!

Because I thought we were talking about correctly updating the database, and I thought that would be best.
Whether it's here or in the database it's still accessable to everyone.

I'll keep my official info to myself ... What's the big secret?

 

[joescanner]

What are the simplex 1-4 freqs?
They have changed twice in the past couple of years. I'll post the latest when I verify them.

Are they the same as Talk 1-4 ??
Not as far as I know. I believe TALK 1-4 are Wash. County channels.

From an old reference list, I have
Simplex 1 - 868.4375
Simplex 2 - 866.0375
Simplex 3 - 866.9500
Simplex 4 - 866.1750

These would obviously be subject to rebanding when the time comes. (15 mhz lower).

joe