Recommendations for vertical antenna on Metal Roof peak?

[KC9HAH]

I'm new to Ham. I'm looking for specific recommendations for a vertical antenna for the peak of my heavy-gauge metal roof.
I'm getting a new Yaesu FT-5DR and want to get the most our of my reception and transmission. I may also get a higher wattage mobile unit to use in my truck and home.
I understand metal roofs can be a real benefit to ham if the antenna system is set up correctly. I would operate the radio(s) in the room just below the antenna, so the cable routing will be simple and short. What are some good options for antennas, mounting equipment and cables to work with my new radio? I'd like it done right for under $300 if possible.

Thank you in advance for your help! KC9HAH

 

[popnokick]

Since the FT-5DR is a dual band (144 / 440 mHz) VHF / UHF) radio I'm assuming you do not intend to use the antenna for any HF work. Therefore, the world is your oyster... choose practically any dual band antenna you wish. Dozens of them are listed in the catalogs from Ham Radio Outlet, The Antenna Farm, Gigaparts, and other Amateur Radio suppliers. And here on RR you will find many reviews (as well as eHam) and mounting information. As for the metal roof: Not an issue for VHF / UHF. HOWEVER you do want to get the antenna up as high as possible. At a minimum, well above any part of the roof / building. On VHF / UHF height is king. What you are trying to achieve is "line of sight" as much as possible between you and the other stations you are working.

 

[scanman56]

height is might

 

[KC9HAH]

Thank you for the advice. I'll browsing the Comet GP-3 and 6 antennas. The mounting looks like the most completed part of setting up an antenna. I'll have to take a look at my house and see what is possible. Thanks again. I'm sure I'll have more questions.

 

[popnokick]

Yes, antenna part itself is probably the least complicated. Your complications will be -
- Figuring out where / how to mount the mast that will hold the antenna. To make it more complicated, drilling the roof is usually not a good idea... especially with metal roof. Unless you happen to be in the business of installing roofs. But there are other ways to handle the mast mounting.
- Figuring out where / how to route the antenna coaxial cable from the antenna into your station location.
- Figuring out where / how to run the protective ground wire from the mast to a good ground point.
There are some generally accepted "good practice" techniques for each of the above. Some are mandated by NEC / FPOA codes. And all of them have been discussed here on RR ad nauseam. The Search function will help you considerably.

 

[ka3aaa]

i wouldn't mount an antenna directly on roof due leakage issues, i would gable mount it if possible with a mast that extends above the roofs peak.

 

[KC9HAH]

Ahh. The gable mount looks like the ticket.
If I do decide to mount to the metal roof itself what hardware is available for such an endeavor?

 

[KC9HAH]

I guess a chimney mount is also an option. I have a small brick chimney that extends well above the peak. I assume the bricks will greatly reduce or completely block my reception/transmission in that exact direction?

 

[mass-man]

A chimney mount holds a mast that you put the antenna on top of! No brick to block the signal...generally you don’t want that mast to be very tall! That and the antenna can make for a pretty tall structure that could stress the chimney!

 

[w2xq]

If you are in a one story house, I'd suggest a long pipe stuffed in the ground and held by two gable brackets bolted (not screwed) to the house just below the roof peak. I found a long pipe at a metal scrap yard, and used long enough bolts to place a 2x4 on the inside of the wall. The mast held several antennas and an end of a long wire. Minimal "damage" to the house when all said and done. Good luck. HTH.

On second thought, if a two story house, the pipe could be set into a peak mount on the lower roof...

 

[KC9HAH]

If you are in a one story house, I'd suggest a long pipe stuffed in the ground and held by two gable brackets bolted (not screwed) to the house just below the roof peak. I found a long pipe at a metal scrap yard, and used long enough bolts to place a 2x4 on the inside of the wall. The mast held several antennas and an end of a long wire. Minimal "damage" to the house when all said and done. Good luck. HTH.

On second thought, if a two story house, the pipe could be set into a peak mount on the lower roof...

Thank you for the advice.
We live low in the landscape, surrounded by trees, not great for reception. Is there a rule-of-thumb I can apply regarding % improvement I can expect using a mounted Comet GP-3 over me sitting on my roof at that same peak with a Diamond SRH-77 on my radio? I'm trying to figure if the investment and hassle will be worth it.

Also, what are smaller antennas that can be mounted with less fanfair, perhaps with magnetic mounts directly on the roof. I'd need an antenna that I can bend or adjust to bring to vertical.

A chimney mount holds a mast that you put the antenna on top of! No brick to block the signal...generally you don’t want that mast to be very tall! That and the antenna can make for a pretty tall structure that could stress the chimney!

Yeah, I can imagine chimney damage. Perhaps I'll drop that idea unless I end up using a much smaller, antenna.

 

[popnokick]

If you have tested and are certain your metal roof will hold a magnet mount antenna then you may be able to use a dual-band mobile antenna on the highest point of the roof. This will not be a permanent, long-term installation as water is likely to get between the magnet and the metal roof. And you'll have two other issues to deal with -
1) You'll probably need to replace the RG58 coax that usually comes permanently attached to mobile antennas, unless the 15 to 17 feet or so of permanently attached cable is more than long enough to reach from the high point on the roof into your radio room. Making a change to that cable.... or lengthening it with adapters... will increase the amount of signal loss in an already less than ideal cable, and provide another means for Mother Nature to put water in your antenna and / or coax.
2) As you noted, you'll need to bend the whip of the mobile antenna at the base near the mount to bring it to a vertical position. This will not be easy as the steel used in the mobile antennas is made to spring back rather than bend. As you apply the considerable force necessary to make a bend at the base of the antenna you'll run the risk of breaking the mount or antenna. And introducing another ingress point for water.
Bottom line: mobile magnetic mount antennas are inadvisable, even if they do stick to the metal rooftop.

 

[R8000]

If your metal roof it the type that has the little ridges that stick up every foot or so that run from top to bottom, you can get clamps that will clamp down on those and give you a threaded bolt opening. You could then mount a tripod on it. I had a customer that did this for a small 5 foot fiberglass antenna and it worked great. It was a commercial roof, and I just don't know the terminology to tell the types of metal roof apart from one another.

I didn't do the antenna mount install, the customer came up with that idea and was satisfied it didn't void his metal roof warranty.
You wouldn't want to go crazy on the length of mast or size of antenna, but for like a Diamond X50, I would think that would work great.
Just an idea. Good luck !

 

[KC9HAH]

If you have tested and are certain your metal roof will hold a magnet mount antenna then you may be able to use a dual-band mobile antenna on the highest point of the roof. This will not be a permanent, long-term installation as water is likely to get between the magnet and the metal roof. And you'll have two other issues to deal with -
1) You'll probably need to replace the RG58 coax that usually comes permanently attached to mobile antennas, unless the 15 to 17 feet or so of permanently attached cable is more than long enough to reach from the high point on the roof into your radio room. Making a change to that cable.... or lengthening it with adapters... will increase the amount of signal loss in an already less than ideal cable, and provide another means for Mother Nature to put water in your antenna and / or coax.
2) As you noted, you'll need to bend the whip of the mobile antenna at the base near the mount to bring it to a vertical position. This will not be easy as the steel used in the mobile antennas is made to spring back rather than bend. As you apply the considerable force necessary to make a bend at the base of the antenna you'll run the risk of breaking the mount or antenna. And introducing another ingress point for water.
Bottom line: mobile magnetic mount antennas are inadvisable, even if they do stick to the metal rooftop.

I'd be trying something like this https://www.amazon.com/HYS-TC-MB90-...&pd_rd_wg=8mC7f&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_atf_m

I admit it is not my best option but it is a huge upgrade over no antenna and trying to use my handheld inside with a metal roof blocking my waves.

 

[KC9HAH]

If your metal roof it the type that has the little ridges that stick up every foot or so that run from top to bottom, you can get clamps that will clamp down on those and give you a threaded bolt opening. You could then mount a tripod on it. I had a customer that did this for a small 5 foot fiberglass antenna and it worked great. It was a commercial roof, and I just don't know the terminology to tell the types of metal roof apart from one another.

I didn't do the antenna mount install, the customer came up with that idea and was satisfied it didn't void his metal roof warranty.
You wouldn't want to go crazy on the length of mast or size of antenna, but for like a Diamond X50, I would think that would work great.
Just an idea. Good luck !

This sounds like my best option so far. We have a very heavy duty standing seam metal roof. It does have the ridges where the steel panels overlay each other. Can you point me to the clamps you are suggesting? Something like these? Roof Clamps | Standing Seam Metal Roof Clamps | S-5!
Which model do you think may work best?

 

[KC9HAH]

If your metal roof it the type that has the little ridges that stick up every foot or so that run from top to bottom, you can get clamps that will clamp down on those and give you a threaded bolt opening. You could then mount a tripod on it. I had a customer that did this for a small 5 foot fiberglass antenna and it worked great. It was a commercial roof, and I just don't know the terminology to tell the types of metal roof apart from one another.

I didn't do the antenna mount install, the customer came up with that idea and was satisfied it didn't void his metal roof warranty.
You wouldn't want to go crazy on the length of mast or size of antenna, but for like a Diamond X50, I would think that would work great.
Just an idea. Good luck !

and I found these on amazon. So, you think I can connect that X50 stand to these? https://www.amazon.com/Roof-Clamp-S...mp+with+threaded+bolt+opening,aps,124&sr=8-14

 

[KC9HAH]

I found this. Any better suggestions?

Amazon.com

 

[R8000]

This sounds like my best option so far. We have a very heavy duty standing seam metal roof. It does have the ridges where the steel panels overlay each other. Can you point me to the clamps you are suggesting? Something like these? Roof Clamps | Standing Seam Metal Roof Clamps | S-5!
Which model do you think may work best?

Yes ! I think that is them ! Good find !

It was about 6 or 8 years ago when I did that trunking system. But, those clamps sure look like it.
I didn't do the antenna mount. The customer's engineering staff sourced the clamps and installed the tripod mount. They preferred to do that since the roof warranty was a concern. Turns out, there was no issues with the warranty.

It held a small tripod mount and 5 foot fiberglass antenna just fine. I am no longer with that radio shop that did the system, but as far as I know it's still up there doing well.

As long as you keep the antenna size and mast length reasonable, I think they would do the job.
I would give these a try and see how it works for you. A simple thing to experiment with. And if it doesn't work out, just undo the clamps and go to plan B.

If you do this method, take a pic of the results for us !

I can't say which model clamp would work for your roof, but you are in the right direction for sure. I would stick with a name brand clamp like the ones in the link above. The Amazon ones just have a cheap feeling, but that's just me. You will need to match up the type of roof joint you have to what they have on their website. I bookmarked that website so I can have them in mind for the future.

 

[w2xq]

Thank you for the advice.
We live low in the landscape, surrounded by trees, not great for reception. Is there a rule-of-thumb I can apply regarding % improvement I can expect using a mounted Comet GP-3 over me sitting on my roof at that same peak with a Diamond SRH-77 on my radio? I'm trying to figure if the investment and hassle will be worth it.

Also, what are smaller antennas that can be mounted with less fanfair, perhaps with magnetic mounts directly on the roof. I'd need an antenna that I can bend or adjust to bring to vertical.


Yeah, I can imagine chimney damage. Perhaps I'll drop that idea unless I end up using a much smaller, antenna.

I can't begin to evaluate the difference between the antennas you ask about. Sorry.

I agree with the comments above that a mag mount on the roof is not a realistic solution. Nor would I mess around with a chimney mount; whatever comes out a chimney coats an antenna, coax and mounting hardware over time.

Whatever you decide to do, I think you are planning to acquire a higher-powered (mobile?) radio. Forget RG-58. Get low-loss coax as discussed throughout these forums -- my 150 feet of 9913 feeding a Hustler atop a telephone pole was good for more than 10 years -- and a decent vertical antenna.

I recognize that I don't know your situation, but my rule is do the right job once, rather than do a poor/mediocre job multiple times. I totally dislike doing repetitive work. Life is too short.

Good luck. HTH a bit.