Regarding "city" field in database.

[ECPD279]

Not sure if Lindsay wants to get e-mail about stuff like this so I'll post it here. I assume that's what this forum is for!

I've noticed that there is no convention for what is included in the city field in the database. In some systems the hilltop site name is listed, in others the nearest city is listed, and in still others "none" or "unincorporated area" is listed. Can Admin attempt to come up with a convention for what should be listed in this field other than "None" so that it is at least a useful field rather than a cause for confusion.

Personally I recommend using the nearest city, as that gives the best representation of where the system really is and some folks don't know where "Big Rock" and "Diablo" are, plus these site names are usually included in the system name anywho. If the system resides in multiple cities, then "Various" is sufficient. If the exact city is unknown then a general area would work such as "Sacramento Area" or "San Francisco Bay Area".

As an adjunct, it would be helpful to me and I assume others if there was an additional field with the band (i.e. 400 MHz, 450 MHz, 460 Mhz, UHF-T, 800 MHz, etc...) so we wouldn't have to click on five different systems with similar names to find the one we're looking for. Just some thoughts.

Thanks Lindsay and gang,
keep up the outstanding work!

 

[loumaag]

Sid,

After looking at this a couple of times, I am going to try and address this. I am going to make the assumption you are talking about TRS entries as opposed to conventional.

The city field is usually filled out with whatever makes sense for the system being put up. I am not sure what specific area you are looking at but since you mentioned San Francisco I took that for an example. The only entires listed in San Francisco county with a "None" in the city field were a couple of LTR entries which are mounted on a peak and the SBC/Pacific Bell system which is widespread and should read "Various" (and will in the next few minutes.)

The key field for location in all TRS entries is the county field. That is the one which leads you to the entry in the most direct method. When you click on a county in any state, you are treated to a list of all the TRS's located in that county. Yes, depending on the county, this list can get long, but there really isn't a better way of handling the location thing.

As for adding the band in the entry somewhere, yes that makes sense when the entity has multiple systems on multiple bands, and such is taken into consideration when that happens. This is taken care of ususally in the name of the system, see Harris County, TX for an example. Baytown Comm. in Houston, has two systems on two different parts of the UHF band and that is reflected. That county is also a good example of various other means to help identify a system from it's brother or sister system.

I hope this answers your concerns.

 

[ECPD279]

In a way it does, but it seems as though most systems I have submitted have been changed to reflect either none or some other nonsensical name for the city the system is in, when I specifically submitted the city that is listed by the FCC as being nearest. As two specific examples, I submitted that the Caltrans D4 North system is located in Novato (Which it is as it's on Big Rock), and the South system is in San Leandro. These entries were shown as such for some time after that, and then they were again changed to "None". It makes me wonder if I should even bother making submissions of correct, verified data if it's just going to be changed because someone else doesn't agree with it. Maybe I'm just being overly attentive or something, but it just seems that the city is a very important piece of information because we have BIIIIGGG counties out thisaway. To me it just makes sense to include the nearest city, rather than "Unincorporated area" since there is so damned much of that around here. Well, thanks for responding anyway Lou.

 

[loumaag]

Sid,

I think I understand what you are talking about; however, the FCC database is well known for inaccurate information. Especially when it comes to transmitter location information. They, like you, seem to think that having a town name in the location adds something, but remember that the county and town information as well as the Lat/Lon is provided by the license holder. The FCC does nothing to verify it.

Let me relate a story, I don't remember exaclty what system I was working on, but I remember while working on it that I found a new tower on another wide spread system once and actually found it by spotting it while I had by portable trunking stuff in the truck. I found the CC (it was a Motorola) and sat on there on the side of the road, in the middle of nowhere, while I collected some data. I was so far out in the field that the only thing I was able to collect was the CC and alt CC channels (no traffic on the tower) and the system information. After about 1/2 hour I moved on. Later that night I found the information, the system, etc. The FCC had the site properly located with Lat/Lon but had the town location for a town over 50 miles away and in another county.

When you first submit new data or systems to the DB, the admin who processes it will probably use the information you provide and/or the FCC information to locate the system or site. After a time, more information may come in which indicates that the thing is in the middle of nowhere, like in my story above. The DB will be changed to accurately describe that situation. Mostly this will deal with site information, but occasionally it will the entire system. "None" is an acceptable entry for a system location that is by itself in the middle of..., well nowhere.

 

[ECPD279]

What I was originally getting at was that I for one would like to see some sort of standardization. I see some unidentified systems with a county in the city column, and others just say unknown, and still others say none. I guess that's the confusion. Maybe it would make more sense to put the hilltop site name in there or something, just some sort of standard. This seems to have become more of an issue than I originally intended, but it's okay, I'll just print 'em out and write it in myself since I know where the system is. Thanks.

 

[ericcarlson]

Accuracy in the database is what we strive for.

Some people have a bizarre fixation with only using licensee names for trunked systems when they are actually licensed to a company that is doing business under another name (or many SMRs that are licensed under employee names). My belief is that the RR database should obviously be more informative than the FCC data. If you really want to know who holds the license then you can look at the FCC data.

As for city data, I don't understand the "unincorporated area" or "none". If it has an address, then the postal service considers it near or a part of some town and I think this would be more informative than nothing. It gets more into a grey area when you're talking about a mountain peak location, for example.

So, if you see an inaccuracy, please submit an update. If you have a problem with an admin not changing things to your liking then at least send them a private message and get a discussion going about why it is the way it is. If you aren't satisifed then send lblanton a message.

-Eric

 

[WayneH]

I submitted that the Caltrans D4 North system is located in Novato (Which it is as it's on Big Rock), and the South system is in San Leandro.

Sid, FYI, both or one of these systems uses receiver voting so technically they aren't located in one physical location.

I, personally, like the city to be specific or N/A. Using what's closest is misleading plus a lot of radio sites - generally speaking - are very far from cities (Unincorporated areas). What exactly is the mile radius for "closest" too? I agree that there needs to be standardization but to develop standards and then implement them on a database this large takes a LOT of time.

If someone can come up on something, whether they're an admin or not, post up. If we all agree on it at least we can start with this area.

-Wayne