Rooftop tripod, mast height, and guying

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Firekite

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Have you tried Home Depot? They used to sell the Rohn push-up masts.
Thanks for the suggestion. It appears “used to” is the operative phrase here, unfortunately.

I went down the road a few miles here to Texas Towers and a Rohn 30ft push up was in the $70 range.
Yeah, it’s frustrating, there are several stocking distributors in the DFW area, in Plano, Garland, etc. Yet nothing south of Waco or west of College Station? Weird.
 

prcguy

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The non penetrating roof mounts mentioned above would serve the same purpose. They are metal frames that you load up with concrete cinder or building blocks for weight and you can get them in sizes to hold up small satellite dishes, antenna masts and even fairly good sized satellite dishes. I've seen 5m satellite dishes on roofs using these with over a ton of cinder blocks spread out to handle the load.


We do shows, lighting sound, video etc, and when I read this topic I had a thought. We use mounts here in the uk we call Tank trap we stick tube in them and they support heavy items like moving head lights and stuff like that. If we want more head load, we add weights to the base. These would be great for antennas on flat roofs.
 

prcguy

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Just take a drive north, get a cheap push up mast from Texas Towers in Plano and enjoy the beautiful weather. I think the heat index puts Plano and Richardson around 103 degrees today and I'm heading back in the pool right now.


Thanks for the suggestion. It appears “used to” is the operative phrase here, unfortunately.


Yeah, it’s frustrating, there are several stocking distributors in the DFW area, in Plano, Garland, etc. Yet nothing south of Waco or west of College Station? Weird.
 

N4GIX

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Have you tried Home Depot? They used to sell the Rohn push-up masts. They will usually have to order it, but that doesn't cost you anything. I have always bought might there in the past.
I ordered a 50' Rohn push-up from Home Depot. It was shipped free to my local Home Depot. I had my handy-man pick it up for me since I don't own any kind of truck. ;)
 

Firekite

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I ordered a 50' Rohn push-up from Home Depot. It was shipped free to my local Home Depot. I had my handy-man pick it up for me since I don't own any kind of truck. ;)
When did you do this, and what was the part number?



Just take a drive north, get a cheap push up mast from Texas Towers in Plano and enjoy the beautiful weather.
I’ve gone farther for less, but that makes for a very long day. Paying $100 in fuel and 12 hours with minimum stops seems like it needs to be nested with a weekend visiting family in McKinney or something. Maybe it’s time to make a trip. But $180 shipped for a 3-section 21.5’ mast that easier to handle sounds not so bad in comparison, just to avoid running a second set of guy wires (presuming a tripod supported bottom section doesn’t need to be guyed).

EDIT: They don’t carry the H20, only the H30. It would buy me an extra 6.5’ for not much more cost (selling at $90 plus fuel and a full day to get it). I don’t have the roof real estate to guy to rafter blocking in a 28’ radius. I think I can probably pull off 21 feet (75% height) at near 120 degrees between them if I’m extremely thoughtful about it. 90 degrees for a 4-way guy setup isn’t possible (or necessary I imagine). The wife is very much not a fan of being on roofs herself, so I’d have to figure something out to measure. Maybe just get up there and roll it out a with measuring wheel to see if those extra 6.5’ are feasible.

 
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alcahuete

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When did you do this, and what was the part number?

Mine was roughly 2 years ago. It looks like now, the only thing they sell is a Channel Master 15'. The Rohn used to be listed on their website, but isn't anymore.

 

Firekite

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Do I need a stand-off of some sort to keep the center of the OCF dipole from being too close to the metal mast? Or can I just fasten a pulley through an unused hole of the top guy ring to hoist the antenna up and lower it down for service or replacement?

I think, based on reevaluating my roof and lot and trees, my plan will be to use a Rohn H30 slipped into the 5-foot tripod with 3 contact points and a roof peak cup underneath it to actually hold the weight of the mast and antenna system so that the tripod itself isn’t bearing any weight at all, only bracing the bottom section.

Then I will use synthetic rope (I’m familiar with Dyneema from vehicle winching, but may look at Dacron or Phillystran) to guy the mid and top rings in 3 directions to the best of my ability to maintain 120 degree separation and to reach sufficiently far to blocked, through-bolt anchors in the roof. In one direction I may actually use a 4x4 privacy post (or a sufficiently sturdy section of galvanized tubing or rigid conduit bracketed to it) as the base of my guy anchor if the angles work out. IF I can’t work it out where the third guy anchorage can reach the full ~28’ before running out of roof, then I will explicitly hang the HF dipole more or less in the direction of the ~75%+ distance anchorage to ensure that the general tension is the least in that direction, on the presumption that every little bit helps. On the guy rings I’ll use a thimble if it fits through the holes or else a”quick link” and the thimble through that. All guys will be tensioned against each other till they’re all snug vs piano-wire tight and then “permanently” terminated to prevent loosening.

I’ll run my coax up the mast, securing it to the mast with zip ties at points where it won’t get hung up, pinched, or cut when lowering the mast in the future, so that it won’t just be loosely flapping in the breeze and hopefully help support some of its own weight instead of just hanging purely from the feed points. A couple loops zip tied to the base of the tripod for future service slack could come in handy.

It may be controversial to some, but I’m considering hiring a roofer to help ensure all this is done in a manner that will not compromise the roof for at least a few years, and while I’m at it I think I’ll have installed a short length of 2” PVC rigid electrical conduit with appropriate flashing bracketed to the trusses underneath with a 2” PVC weatherhead fixed on top. I’ll use that to bring the coax in, running straight down a truss to the covered patio outside the shack wall where they’ll exit the ceiling/soffit at the exterior wall and run down to the ground rod previously installed there by me for that purpose when we redid the slab. There they’ll attach to surge arrestors on a ground rod clamp before then entering back up into the same hole in the soffit and out of the interior wall of my shack immediately adjacent. Those KF7P entry panels are mighty nice and mighty tempting even if expensive, and I may go that route instead to keep things looking as nice as possible.

Going back up adds a couple more feet of coax than drilling through the brick (French entry doors, no windows), but it’s probably worth it to keep it tidy and minimize further uglifying of the back patio and raising the consternation level of the long suffering wife. And it’s certainly still shorter than the coax isn’t just resting on the roof damming up oak pollen and leaves and ball moss and tempting the squirrels with its deliciousness, before wrapping around the gutters and up along the soffit (ceiling) of the covered patio to reach the same exit point.

A 30’ mast on the roof with a 6’ GP-3 stuck on the top of it isn’t exactly stealth, but hopefully the guying and coax routing will avoid being eye-catching.


Mine was roughly 2 years ago. It looks like now, the only thing they sell is a Channel Master 15'. The Rohn used to be listed on their website, but isn't anymore.

Dang, that’s what I found, too.
 
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Firekite

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Unless there’s a good reason to do something different, I plan to LMR-400 for the VHF/UHF. It doesn’t seem worth it for LMR-600 at a total length of about 50’. For that length in the worst case scenario for the top of the GMRS band, TMS claims 1.6dB loss for LMR-400 and 1.0dB for LMR-600. I briefly considered LMR-240, but that jumps to 3.0dB. I’m planning on a Yaesu FT-991A shack-in-a-box, but that only puts out a claimed 50W on UHF (as would be expected), and losing half of that to the coax (~twice as much loss as LMR-400) isn’t ideal. Even if I got into 33cm the 928MHz tippy top of the band is still only 2.2dB versus 1.5dB.

Times Microwave Systems calculator:

I don’t think I’ll be hitting any bulk quantity discounts unless I buy a whole spool and sell it out to hams locally or use it for something at the farm, but I may go ahead and use LMR-400 for the HF as well. It gives me the flexibility to switch out to a completely different band antenna later, keeps the connectors and crimp tools consistent, and if I ever decide to add an amp to the setup it can take as much as I can throw it at (it’s basically a 10WG solid wire after all). Loss at 80m is literally 0.1dB or less, and even at 10m it’s only 0.4dB. Since I’ll “only” be running 100W getting it all out to the 3kw-rated antenna would be nice. If I need to engage a toroid or what have you, I can always make a jumper out of RG-8X for the purpose. I know it’s stiff and painful to work with, but once in place I don’t plan to mess with it often other than disconnecting it from the radio(s) if the weather gets that bad or I’m going to be out of town.

By the way, I’ll find out in about 2 weeks if I won a 991A in a raffle. If not, I’m going to just buy it regardless.
 
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