Round #2 - I want my General License too! :D

[MrGClips]

Fellow newbie Technicians, anyone else is studying for the General Class now?

I've got to be honest; though I enjoyed learning lots of interesting electronics stuff for the Tech license, it was a very hard process for me. I didn't just try to memorize the answers but also understand all the functions of the components, the calculations, the concepts and everything. I researched the web, googled the living heck out of my computer to find tutorials and demos, but still this was a lot to learn for sure!

NOW, getting started with the General study materials, everything feels even harder! From the first chapter it is like gibberish to me, mostly! I want to have the General license for the wider bands that it comes with, however, I seriously doubt that I will ever use any of the electronics knowledge and information in real-life everyday communications, because simply put, I'm not an electronics engineer and have no intention of any kind building circuits, only want the permission to use the wider bands and that's it!

I feel that a lot more actual operational guide should be included instead of all these academic engineering stuff, because after getting the Tech license, I still feel completely clueless about real-life usage. And I've got the feeling it's going to be the same after getting the General license as well.

I really envy those guys who took all 3 exams in 1 sitting and passed! They're either very knowledgeable in electronics, have photographic memories, or just learned the right answers from the question pools without understanding the stuff. I don't really know, but for me, it's really hard for sure!

But I WANT my General Class license too!

And also, realizing how hard it is for me, I can't help but wonder: How many people fail the tests and how many trials does it usually take to pass them? What's the success/failure rate on these exams? Anyone knows that? Is there a statistics website about it? I can't imagine that I'm the only one struggling like this with this stuff.

 

[K7MEM]

None of the questions on the Technician, General or Extra exam requires you to be a Engineer to pass the test. Some of the material is very basic electronics. The rest covers material that you need to know to be a good/considerate operator. I am a retired design engineer, but certainly didn't need all of my engineering knowledge to get a ham license. Did it help? Absolutely. But Engineering and ham radio was my chosen path. And my studying spanned a lot of years. I know far more hams today that are not engineers, than are, and they managed to pass the tests.

When I first started out (Novice 1965) I mostly operated on 2 meters using a Heathkit Twoer (AM - 5 watts). One of the guys I regularly talked to was a Baker. He use to operate from his bake shop, while he was waiting for the bread to rise. In fact, at that time, most of the operators were young kids or young adults like me, not engineers.

A good friend of mine just tested for his Extra last week, and passed. We worked at the same place for 10-12 years, before I retired. He was a computer administrator, and definitely a plug-n-play type of guy. He can't tell you the difference between a resistor or capacitor, or read a block diagram let alone a schematic. Just tell him which wire to plug in where and he is good to go. For his studying, he went to the training sessions offered by the local club. Presented in an orderly fashion, anyone can pass the test.

With any class of license, the real learning happens after you get the license, not before. Before you get your license you usually only have a vague idea of how things works. Once you get the license you can take off in whatever direction that interests you. Some hams stick to VHF/UHF, some dive into digital modes, others get a feel for some satellite work.

You have your Technician license now. Have you been on the air and gained any experience? Have you exercised the band space you are currently allocated? Have you run into any of those "ogres" that monitor the repeaters?

As fare as stats on test takers, I don't know of any available. The FCC tracks license counts, but they don't include test failures. If you look at the license count from 2010 and today, the percentage of Tech, General, and Extra class licenses are about the same. Tech is up 0.1%, General is up 1.2% and Extra is up 2.4%. Make what you will of that.

The only direct information I have is from my Extra class test session (1999). There were 7 or 8 of us testing for Extra that day. I was the only one that made it and walked out a Extra. However, none of them failed because of the written test.

 

[ko6jw_2]

Similar threads seem to pop up here week after week. The bottom line is that none of the tests are difficult. Passing Extra is a matter of learning a set of formulas which can be applied to a finite set of questions plus some rules and regulations that are mostly common sense. However, if you have never studied algebra or trigonometry the formulas will be harder.

I get where you are coming from. You want to get on the air and enjoy ham radio. My only problem with that attitude is that you really should have a minimum of knowledge about your equipment and how radio propagation works. Not interested? Learning new things keeps your brain from decaying. No, you'll never build a transceiver, but what about antennas?

If you just look at tests as a barrier to doing what you want to do, you'll probably have problems passing. If you look at them as a gateway to new ideas, you will not have any problems.

I have a friend who has his General license, but after multiple attempts has not passed Extra. Why? He doesn't want to study the theory. He just tries to memorize the answers. He keeps failing.

I think that the VEC's do keep statistics. I've never seen and data. Consider this, I am a CPA. When I took the exams the first time pass rate was between 4% and 6%. That's right, 94-96% of candidates failed on their first attempt. (I did) I just kept studying and I passed. Most of what I studied, I don't use and most of what I do now was not on the exam.

It's the same with ham radio. You won't ever design a piece of equipment, but you will need to know about antennas and propagation or you won't talk to very many people and you'll wonder why.

Bottom line, if you have some basic knowledge, you'll have a lot more fun.

 

[N0IU]

I will give you exact same advice I gave you in your last thread. It is just as relevant in this situation as it was before.

This is going to be a very unpopular response, but....

The bottom line is to get your license. The questions and answers are in the public domain for you to use in any manner in which you see fit. Once you get your license, you can get on the air and start enjoying amateur radio right away. You have plenty of time to learn all this stuff and there is no reason to become an expert before you get your license.

Once you get on the air, I promise NO ONE will ask or even care how you got your license. I would hazard a guess that an overwhelming majority of them got their license by memorizing the questions and answers so they have no room to talk!

In December, I will have been licensed for 23 years. I have made tens of thousands of contacts and I have NEVER heard anyone ask another operator if they memorized the test questions and answers. That is stuff you will only see on Internet forums.

So get your license and get on the air and start having fun! I mean that's why we got into this hobby, right?

 

[KC4RAF]

For me, I downloaded the question pool

from ARRL to my computer. Then I printed out the questions with the correct answers removed. Studied, studied, and studied some more. TAKE your time. What's that old saying, "Rome wasn't built in a day"
But then again I have electrical and electronics back ground, (retired electrician and retired electronics teacher). Adam Sandler(?) said it, "You can do it baby..."

 

[MrGClips]

First of, thanks for the comments, I appreciate them every time and try to learn from them, sucking up information like a sponge! ... and I have no problem getting constructive criticism either. Most of you guys know more about this stuff than I ever will, so I have to respect that.

About actual experience: Well, I haven't made my first contact yet since I've got my Tech license just days ago. Most of the repeaters I've been monitoring around my location are quiet in the daytime and not too busy in the night-time either. The official channels on the other hand, are very busy, cops - ems and firefighters, but they get kind o' boring after a while, so I went back monitoring HAM repeaters and frequencies (only on 2m and 70cm with my little handheld).

I've listened into a few conversation, but didn't want to interrupt, because they were personal discussions between friends, so I felt it would have been inappropriate. But that's OK, it's no rush, and I'm still trying to learn about the context, the general practice and 'protocol' by listening and listening even more.

I've also found a few good videos on YT to learn from where the educators explained a lot of useful stuff, emphasis on what NOT to do! They're sick and tired of some stuff people do on the air and I can't blame them, as they explained some of it. It's kind of funny too!

Just minutes ago I finished reading the first General Study material, but I can tell again (just like when I finished my first reading for Tech before), that it is very complex and very academic-type in regards of the electronics portion, and I would lie if I said I actually understand it! But after the Tech preparation, at least I had an idea of what to expect, so I feel more prepared to absorb the new information, which I find very interesting still. Hard, but interesting.

I can see that this will take many-many more readings before I go into the Flash Cards and Questions, and I want to research a lot of things online to visually associate them with what I've read so far, in order to fully comprehend the meaning of the written material, because at this stage I can't even figure out some of their meanings! It's like I read it, understand the words, but have no idea what they actually translate to.

But that's OK, I still have almost a month before the next available exam day in my area, which gives plenty of time to digest the new stuff. I have the same view on it as before on the Tech exam. I will give it 3 trials. If I fail all 3 times, then I stay a Tech and that's it. Never try it again after that. Of course, I wouldn't be very happy about a complete failure, so I'm gonna study hard, just like I did the first time around, but I also have to realize and accept the fact that this type of highly technical material is not for everybody!

On the other hand, I feel that this is a good thing to create a barrier for the right crowd in the HAM community and filter out people who simply don't belong. And by no means it is "easy" at all, at least not for me personally.

I urge other Techs to plunge into the General studies as soon as possible to get the upgrade and all the wonderful opportunities the expanded bands provide. Once we do it, we can enjoy it all!

But for now, that's only a plan. Well, we will see.

 

[AC2OY]

I doubt I can get you on UHF/VHF but if your willing I'll be your first QSO. There is a repeater WBERS I forget the frequency on 2 meters 147.2200 maybe it's linked to the entire east coast. Or 143.2700 I have it in my ht. Break the ice once you start talking you'll be ok. Keep studying and you will pass the next two.

 

[k1agh]

Im studying for my general and use the ARRL book and the many sites out there. AC2OY is that repeater for the entire east coast or just NJ?

 

[K7MEM]

Just minutes ago I finished reading the first General Study material, but I can tell again (just like when I finished my first reading for Tech before), that it is very complex and very academic-type in regards of the electronics portion, and I would lie if I said I actually understand it! But after the Tech preparation, at least I had an idea of what to expect, so I feel more prepared to absorb the new information, which I find very interesting still. Hard, but interesting.

I can see that this will take many-many more readings before I go into the Flash Cards and Questions, and I want to research a lot of things online to visually associate them with what I've read so far, in order to fully comprehend the meaning of the written material, because at this stage I can't even figure out some of their meanings! It's like I read it, understand the words, but have no idea what they actually translate to.

The reading and learning never stops. I have been a ham for 50 years now. I read something about electronics or radio every day. And I learn something every day. It sound like you are just stressing yourself out, for no good reason. There is no requirement that you must be prepared for the next available test session. You should be studying the material and taking practice tests until you think you are ready. Then look for a test session. Even then you might not be 100% ready, but that's OK. You can get a few questions wrong and still pass. Most hams enjoy their current band privileges and may take several months/years preparing themselves for the other levels.

But that's OK, I still have almost a month before the next available exam day in my area, which gives plenty of time to digest the new stuff. I have the same view on it as before on the Tech exam. I will give it 3 trials. If I fail all 3 times, then I stay a Tech and that's it. Never try it again after that. Of course, I wouldn't be very happy about a complete failure, so I'm gonna study hard, just like I did the first time around, but I also have to realize and accept the fact that this type of highly technical material is not for everybody!

Planning for defeat? What a terrible thing to do. Granted, I have a different background than you, but when I was working for the higher class licenses, I used QRZ.com to take some practice tests. Every test is different so you get a good feel for the questions being asked. There are no time limits and QRZ will keep track of your tests. You can see which questions you got wrong and then research why it was wrong. You can also research why the correct answer was right. Being a multiple guess test, many of the questions are obvious. Once you throw away the ridiculous answers, only the correct one is left. When you are regularly testing on QRZ to 85-90%, you are ready for the real test.

On the other hand, I feel that this is a good thing to create a barrier for the right crowd in the HAM community and filter out people who simply don't belong. And by no means it is "easy" at all, at least not for me personally.

That is total bunk. There is no barrier and there is no right/wrong crowd. Just go listen at the high end of 80 and 40 meters. It's an absolute zoo. The hams involved in those shouting and jamming sessions are no more technically competent than you, and they weren't filtered out. So why should you be.

The only barrier that use to be around was the Morse code tests. This kept a lot of ham from getting their higher class license. As I mentioned in my previous post, when I tested for Extra, there were 7-8 other testing. I was the only one that made Extra that day, but it wasn't the written tests that caused the others to fail.

One of the hams testing was really sad. He had the written tests down pat, but it was his third time at the Morse test. But the only reason he failed was he allowed stress to dominate him. The testing place tried to accommodate him by providing a keyboard, at his request, for him to copy with. Well the keyboard lasted about 30 seconds before he pushed it aside and grabbed a pencil. But that didn't help. I would have given him a pass just for his effort. Of course, a few years later they dropped the Morse code requirements so I am sure he made Extra.

 

[MrGClips]

Im studying for my general and use the ARRL book and the many sites out there.

Good for you! So, how is it going? When do you take the test? Hope you make it! Good luck in advance!

 

[N8IAA]

Good for you! So, how is it going? When do you take the test? Hope you make it! Good luck in advance!

Have you considered EchoLink, or DStar? Echolink doesn't require a radio, just a PC. With DStar, you can hook a dongle to the PC and talk around the world.
I've made more DX contacts on DStar than I ever did on HF.
Ham radio can be fun, and you don't need to talk on the local repeaters to do it
I've been a ham for 30 years, and have tried many ways to make contacts.
Don't stress about making General. Enjoy and learn the basics. It will make it easier to upgrade.
Larry

 

[MrGClips]

Simplified Band Chart!

Let me recommend for other newcomers my modified Band Chart. I deleted the previous (old-school) Novice/Advanced class band limits in order to simplify the chart, so it is easier to memorize the remaining 3 Classes. The original chart looked confusing with so many different bars and band-limits.

Obviously the Novice/Advanced limits are still in place officially, but for new guys like myself, all that is just an unnecessary distraction, since those classes had been discontinued.

Anyhow, this is how I learn the bands, I hope others will find it useful. If not, then just ignore it.

Ps: If the image looks junk after upload, that's probably because it gets compressed. The original I have is clear and nice.

 

[MrGClips]

Original Band Chart.

This is the original one, WITH the Novice/Advanced band info, which I find confusing.

That's why I just removed them from my own version above. No copyright infringement intended.

 

[K4EET]

<snip> If I fail all 3 times, then I stay a Tech and that's it. Never try it again after that. <snip>

Nooooooo... Please do not have that attitude. Even if you fail the test 7 times, the 8th time might be the charm. What am I saying? One day you WILL pass the General exam!

I have a friend that knows neither the formula for a simple dipole antenna design nor Ohms Law yet he just passed his Extra Class license after 14 attempts. Pure memorization!

I'm not encouraging passing by memorizing the question pools. It is better to understand the principles behind the question. And your knowledge WILL be used throughout your life as a hsm even if it be an Elmer to somebody working on their General ticket.

Have you sought out a local ham club that offers the General Class training session? If not and you don't know of a local club, please let us know your location and I'll ask a VEC friend of mine or call the ARRL and ask what club in your area offers classes.

Again, you WILL pass your General. I can tell you want to pass it so don't give up on your dream. It can come true!!!

And if you don't understand a particular pool question, start a new thread and we will help you to understand it.

Best wishes on getting you General license!

73, Dave K4EET

 

[chrissim]

With any class of license, the real learning happens after you get the license, not before..

Perhaps I devalued myself some, but I used hamstudy.org for the tech, general, and extra. I spent about two weeks studying each. I then took the eham practice test. Once satisfied, I went to a test session and passed them. Easy stuff.

I knew I didn't want to be an appliance operator, so once I passed the tests, I purchased the necessary books and learned what was pertinent to me. I still ask practical questions, such as "What is your experience using such and such," however, I have a solid foundation of understanding (admittedly, something I didn't have the day I passed).

Regardless of what others may want, YOU need only to be concerned with aspects of the hobby that interest you. Sure, it would be nice if I knew about all elements of the hobby, but not all elements of the hobby interest me.

Study for the test in the most expedient manner possible. Pass the test, then deeply delve into the aspects that fascinate you the most.

In retrospect of the above, I spent many years in college and I teach for a living. I'm used to test preparation. However, rote memorization isn't magic. Don't make this harder than it has to be.

 

[k6cpo]

But that's OK, I still have almost a month before the next available exam day in my area, which gives plenty of time to digest the new stuff. I have the same view on it as before on the Tech exam. I will give it 3 trials. If I fail all 3 times, then I stay a Tech and that's it. Never try it again after that. Of course, I wouldn't be very happy about a complete failure, so I'm gonna study hard, just like I did the first time around, but I also have to realize and accept the fact that this type of highly technical material is not for everybody!

When you express that kind of thinking, I can't help but wonder if you're really not all that interested in ham radio.

I've seen a lot of persistence among those who are really interested. One member of my club wanted nothing more than to be a VE. I don't know how many times it took him to pass the General, but it was quite a few. I do know he tested for the Extra almost weekly for over a year before finally passing. To this day, he has never gotten on HF, but stays on 2 meters.

 

[MrGClips]

My long answer and the story behind it.

When you express that kind of thinking, I can't help but wonder if you're really not all that interested in ham radio.

I've seen a lot of persistence among those who are really interested. One member of my club wanted nothing more than to be a VE. I don't know how many times it took him to pass the General, but it was quite a few. I do know he tested for the Extra almost weekly for over a year before finally passing. To this day, he has never gotten on HF, but stays on 2 meters.

Well, I would certainly not try to pass a test weekly for a year, spending enormous amount of time invested into studying, preparation, travel and such, along with considerable sums of money to get something that I wouldn't even utilize to its full potentials afterwards. That is absolutely correct.

Though I think your friend's persistence is truly admirable, it may be misguided as well. What I mean is; for example, I'm interested in many different things and usually get pretty good at them, but I also know there are limits to my capabilities no matter what I do. So, when I do something with full attention, dedication and energy, but still fail after giving my best shot multiple times, then I am ready to accept the fact that a particular thing is beyond my reach and obviously was not meant for me, and then I move on to try something else.

In regards to HAM: I've had about 4 pairs of walkie-talkies over the years, which I loved by the way (please don't laugh, I really liked those things ), but their short range set limit to their usefulness. So, in order to have more range, I've got a GMRS capable model with more power, but to be on the legal side, I've registered for a license and paid the fee. THEN (!!!) I saw a very interesting video where a HAM operator talked about this stuff that caught my attention, so I started to research the topic, the basic rules, regulations, tests and such, even read a bit into one of the study materials I've found online (briefly), then submitted my comments to him afterwards.

Best if I just copy the entire discussion here, which tells the whole story...

===
MY VIDEO REVIEW:

Though I enjoyed your video, I have a comment regarding the entire topic.
- I feel that HAM for the average person is just an obsolete technology compared to smart devices like phones, tablets and such with internet access, and the entire HAM thing is an over-regulated and not user-friendly technology mostly for mariners, emergency services, and of course, tech-geeks and 'survivalists' if there is such a word. And when I checked out the basic 'Technician' study guide, it only made me realize WHY people don't even get into HAM in the first place. Because it is way over-complicated!
- If people have a pair of easy to use Walkie-Talkies 'just in case', I can understand that, but HAM is a pain and a ton of wasted time and money to go back into the past and study academic level electronics and a unique communication language for even the most basic operation, while a modern smart device gives 100 X more in a simplified way for the average person without all that nonsense that's involved in studying for and becoming a HAM operator.
- I think HAM should be simplified like the web, or even a basic Walkie-Talkie, if it wants to stay alive and 'survive' its own technological disadvantages that were brought about by modern devices, delivering much more for less in a significantly better, easier, simple and more user-friendly way on a universal platform like the web.
- Though HAM sounds intriguing, in my opinion it is pretty clear that it is a dying breed with no future in its current stage.
---
REPLY:

Try talking with to the International Space Station with your I phone. The Tech class is not hard at all, fun fact the Pacific Crest Trail is 90+% covered by Ham and only about 60% for cell coverage.

---
MY COMMENT:

The web coverage of Earth is increasing rapidly and I'm sure it's just a short matter of time before every single part will have either direct WiFi or Satellite access, reaching even into space! And you can't be serious comparing the capabilities vs user requirements (like tests) of a Ham and a Web ready smart device side-by-side.
- I mean, try to imagine IF people would have to take SUCH a test, based upon the kind of study material made for a simple Ham radio, just for the use of a smart phone, with all of its complexity, the technology built-in, programming languages, operation and the infrastructure behind it, as it is detailed in the Ham study materials and the tests! Barely any human would be qualified for a smart device!
- So, instead, they SIMPLIFIED them with unbelievable success! On the HAM system, it is STILL a very difficult process to get a license that limit the number of people getting into it in the first place, and the demanded study material is NOT an easy thing to learn at all! I just showed some friends and they had absolutely freaked out by the technological details and the questions. They all capable of handling their smart devices with ease with dozens of different apps, but had difficulties even operating a simple walkie-talkie!
- And all that hassle just for a simple voice communication (or you can add very limited data or maybe Morse-code IF you are a hard-core Ham operator), but nowhere near the capabilities, flexibility and overall performance and features of a smart device that billions of people can learn easy and use on a global scale without any prior special technical or electrical knowledge, which are absolutely demanded and required basics for Ham!
- But like I said it before, HAM sounds intriguing nevertheless. There is a strange feeling of "freedom" in it that even I can't explain. Maybe I will learn it and take the damn test, just as a curiosity and for personal achievement, so I could understand it better. Yeah, I think I'm going to do that...

---

REPLY:

I studied for and aced the exam in four days. Not that complicated.
---
MY COMMENT

Congrats! That is very nice indeed! I've started to study in the last few days, but haven't had much time. However, I intend to give it a try shortly myself. But personally, I don't find the material easy at all and I would feel happy if I could pass the test. Very happy!

---
REPPLY:

go the the QRZ site and look at practice tests.
---
MY COMMENT AFTER PASSING THE TEST:

I just came back to say CQ. That's right, I've got my Technician License! It just showed up not long ago in the database. Now I can go and seek out some info about actual usage, what to do now, 'cause I'm clueless.
---

Congrats, sounds like we're in the same boat. KG7WXY standing by.

THE END.
===

Well, that was it!

As you can see, I was not exactly a HAM fanatic willing to break arms and legs for the cause, but still, I had found it interesting enough to give it a shot and dedicate time to study, learn, struggle with it, then go and take the test successfully, and now that I understand a little bit more what HAM is all about, continue the road to the next level, because I DO (!!!) find it interesting.

HOWEVER; If I fail multiple times, I'm willing to let it go and under no circumstances would I try after failure upon failure upon failure the same thing!

But, IF I succeed, then most likely I will give a shot to the Extra Class as well! My way may not be the usual "always wanted to be a HAM" kind of way, but I think in the end it's all fine, since there is one more person who got into the community, one more who had found something very attractive and interesting in this particular hobby, which, in the end, is a positive thing.

So I continue my studies and do my best to get the General class by the end of next month. And if I beat it, got my "G" License, I will go Round #3 just for the heck of it!

I hope you guys won't take my words out of context and nobody will feel offended by my initial views.

Oh, and THANK YOU for reading my comment as well! Appreciate everyone's time!

 

[K7MEM]

Well it seems that you are thick headed and opinionated. Perfect for amateur radio.

As an aside, it's "ham" not "HAM". It is more of a nickname rather than acronym. I think there is a Wiki site that explains why we are called "ham" operators.

Anyway, good luck on your testing.

Martin - K7MEM

 

[K4EET]

<snip> I hope you guys won't take my words out of context and nobody will feel offended by my initial views.

Oh, and THANK YOU for reading my comment as well! Appreciate everyone's time!

I'm not offended and I don't think I misunderstood your words or taken anything out of context. I also read EVERY word that you posted and appreciate you thanking us for our time in reading it all.

That said, I do hope that you will study for the next exam and ace it. In addition to online resources, I am willing to be your long-distance Elmer. If you don't know, an Elmer helps an individual get into ham radio and is his mentor for life. I am medically retired and willing to do that for you.

Keep us posted on your efforts and feel free to PM me anytime.

73, Dave K4EET

 

[AC2OY]

Im studying for my general and use the ARRL book and the many sites out there. AC2OY is that repeater for the entire east coast or just NJ?

I think the east coast if I remember right the BEARS network owned by ABC I have them written down and programmed in my HT.