RTL-SDR Sensitivity

Status
Not open for further replies.

N9JCQ

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
941
Reaction score
399
Location
Lake Barrington, IL
Hi All,
I purchased a new RTL-SDR dongle last week and I am learning to set it up and use it. I installed SDR# as it appears easy for a novice like me to at least get started. Its all new to me even though I have been a ham and scanner enthusiast for decades.
Now for a basic question. I live about two miles from a local airport. I have a NilJon Super M antenna (discone-ish) I use for scanning and ham work. Its up about 20 feet. My Yaesu FT-7800 and Uniden BCD396T with a switch box. I added the RTL-SDR to the switchbox so I can switch between the three radios for comparison purposes.
I figured I would load the local airport ATIS frequency in for learning purposes. Both the Yaesu and the 396T recive the ATIS quite strong. However the RTL-SDR is not nearly as sensitive. I have played with the gain (remember novice here) and filtering but the base signal is not nearly as strong as the other two radios. Is this to be expected from a $25.00 dongle or is there something I am not doing?

My main purpose is to monitor Milair and CivilAir. Its not a complaint mind you. I wanted to dip my toes in the water. I am just wondering what I can expect from it. Thanks for any and all responses!
 

br0adband

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
1,566
Reaction score
7
Location
Springfield MO
Well, considering that these "cheap USB TV tuners" were never really designed for this kind of actual use - but they do amazingly well even so - you can't actually expect the same level of performance for many reasons but I won't go into every single one of them. The basic gist of things is to use something like a traditional NOAA weather signal in the 162 MHz range to get yourself up and running. Since you live so close to an airport you may be able to pull one from there since that's where most of the transmitters are located in the US (major international airports but also regional ones too with pretty good coverage of the entire US but you probably already know this).

Anyway, I personally either use that (when mucking around in the CivAir or VHF-Hi range (118 to 174 MHz combined) for setting a calibration - I have the older RTL sticks from NooElec with no TXCO so I have to deal with the thermal issues, if you have the $25 sticks that more than likely means yours are using a TXCO and will do much better but still can require calibration out of the box of maybe 1, 2 ppm at most to get as close to being "on frequency" as possible.

For UHF I tend to use the ATSC signal here in the US at 470.310 MHz (Channel 14 as it's labeled) for such calibration purposes and that one works well for me even through 940 MHz most of the time. I have my two RTL sticks plainly labeled (one has a 49 ppm offset and the other is 56 ppm) and I've never really had issues with either of them in the ~2.5 years I've owned 'em now.

If you've gone through all the setup and testing which apparently you have, the only thing I can suggest at this point would be try attaching the external antenna directly to the RTL stick (if you have the proper adapters) - don't use the switchbox at all for this test and see if there's any potential increase in signal levels. If there is, and it's noticeable, you could have a faulty switchbox - could be as simple as disassembly and cleaning the internal contacts (if it's a really old one), blowing it all out with some compressed air maybe, or simply redoing all the antenna connections after cleaning off the actual connectors with a wire brush or something. Anything is possible at this point I would say so it's just some actions you can take to confirm where there might - I say might be a potential signal drop to the RTL stick itself.

For myself personally all my hardware is inside, would love to get an antenna on the roof of my apartment building (I'm on the 3rd/top floor so it's like 6 feet above me literally but they won't allow me to do anything on the building structure itself) which would make a big difference for me I'm sure. My central location in downtown Las Vegas does get me most anything valleywide for ~20 miles in any direction to the sides of the mountains that enclose us here, with major tower sites to the southeast and on some of the taller casino-hotel structures as well. I don't miss much but even so, more is always better. :D

As for airport/aircraft listening I'm also almost in the middle of two airports: McCarran International about 6 miles due south of me and Nellis AFB to the northeast by about 6 miles as well. McCarran's ground traffic is basically blocked by a very large concrete/steel/metal/glass structure directly behind my apartment building sadly but Nellis I can pull in to some degrees without issues. Whenever the Thunderbirds are out for practice I typically fire up the RTL stick and SDR-Console aka SDR-Radio and listen in to the lead pilot as he calls out the maneuvers. I've taken my laptop and the RTL stick along with my OCFD out on the balcony before and had a tremendous increase in signal reception but that's obvious because I live in the rear portion of my building and their signals have to pass through an entire half-block of physical structure (even though this place is made primarily of wood and sheet-rock more than steel) before it gets to my apartment.

But test the direct antenna connection to the RTL stick and see what happens, might notice something, might not. For most people the preferred method of adjusting the gain is to use leave the RTL AGC and the Tuner AGC off and only using the slider to adjust the gain as necessary to keep the noise levels as low as possible, but there could be times when you'll kick one or even both of them into action for temporary periods.

You may end up coming to a point where using a dedicated antenna designed for CivAir/MilAir might work best for the RTL stick itself, depending on how things go, or potentially adding an LNA (Low Noise Amplifier) for the RTL stick to help it out a bit, just potential answers to help improve performance.

They work fine in my usage but, as I've noted in the past I don't even own a traditional physical scanner anymore, just these two RTL sticks for a few years now and I do all the monitoring I handle with just the two sticks, SDR#, SDR-Console/Radio, DSD+ and of course Unitrunker. The RTL sticks are never going to give you identical performance as an actual physical scanner will, but you can get pretty close and still have more than acceptable levels of performance overall.

Works for me. :)
 

N9JCQ

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
941
Reaction score
399
Location
Lake Barrington, IL
Thank you very much for your response. I will try your suggestions this coming weekend. I live in the north Chicago suburbs so I have my Local airport, O'hare 15 miles due south and a multitude of Approach/Departure frequencies to play with. Also I have several NOAA sites close enough. Again, I truly appreciate it.
Joe
 

moonbounce

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
1,452
Reaction score
84
I have an older NooElec RTL-SDR dongle without the TXCO and I have just started monitoring the Civilair band.
I use the local airport ( 12.5 Km away) ATIS to set squelch, AGC, RTL-AGC and the minimum signal strength. I live on the 9th floor and have a telescopic antenna sitting on my air conditioner sleeve.For comparisons sake I also have an old realistic Pro 2020 also hooked up to an outside antenna that is also on the air conditioner sleeve.
The dongle has no problem receiving the airport ATIS, but the 2020 has to have the squelch turned right up or the radio will not stop on the frequency. as far as MilAir we have very little around my area so I don't really bother with it.
Hope that helps. One other thing I find is that radios and dongles all have their own peronalaties, it seem to me that not two are the same, just my observations.
P.S. I also have an old Pro 2006 that i use now and again that I was experimenting with and it will not pickup the airport ATIS with an antenna in the window? Go figure radios out cause I can"t.

MB
 

AggieCon

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,448
Reaction score
18
Location
Texas
Can you post a screenshot of SDR# with the gain window open?
 

moonbounce

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
1,452
Reaction score
84
One other thing you might want to check is the RTL-SDR controller it should be around 38.6.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top