SAR Handheld

[novaman64]

Im on a SAR (search & rescue) team, team members have to supply their own radios. Most people are running Baofeng's, some of the hams are running better gear (Motorola APX's or some flavor of Kenwood).

That being said, I have been using a Anytone 878UVII Plus that I programmed, but am looking for something a bit more robust/duable. I have a NX-5700/5800 dual deck single head setup in my truck, which I use for drone responses, but am looking for a nice part 90 handheld for my ground team deployments.

I need something that can handle VHF and UHF, ideally could also have DMR enabled (not using now, but at a high level our Sheriff's office is talking about it in the future). Dont have my ham license yet, though plan on getting it soon, so FPP would be nice though not required.

I dont mind if the radio is used, but would need to be able to obtain programming software for it.

So far, the list I am looking at would be:
Tait TP9700 or TP9900
Motorola APX7000 or APX8000
Viking VP8000 (I really wish Kenwood would release their version as I already have KPG-D1N)
Bendix BK9000
Harris XL 200P

Any thoughts on which might work best, this radio will be in heat, pouring rain, snow, wildfire burns, etc. Will also need a good IP rated speaker/mic, and one with BT would be a huge bonus. Any handheld missing from my list that I should be considering?

 

[DeoVindice]

If a VP8000 is an answer, a VP8000 is the answer. That entire ecosystem is wonderful to work with. It and Tait are the only options that give you the option to include DMR, and adding software feature licenses to keep up with system changes is straightforward.

 

[tweiss3]

If a VP8000 is an answer, a VP8000 is the answer. That entire ecosystem is wonderful to work with. It and Tait are the only options that give you the option to include DMR, and adding software feature licenses to keep up with system changes is straightforward.

This.

 

[mmckenna]

The Motorola, BK and Harris won't do multiband + DMR, so those are out.

@DeoVindice is correct, the VP8000 is probably your best option if you already are comfortable with the Kenwood line. You can provision is with just the options you need and save some money. The accessory line up will give you the IP ratings you want.

The Tait TP-9700 and 9900 would be your other option. The 9900 gives you the option to do P25 in the future, and I'd carefully consider that.


As for the FPP,
Technically, it's not allowed under Part 90, but most ignore that. If you are planning on using it for amateur radio use, it'll work for 2 meters and 70 centimeters, but it has it's limitations. These radios have enough memory that it's easy to add another zone with all your amateur radio personalities in it and have room to spare. The FPP can add cost, and you may find that having a dedicated ham radio with VFO might make some more sense.

 

[tweiss3]

One more option that you may have thought of. You could get a pair of NX-5200 & NX5300 and grab the band you need for each response. This would keep you in D1N and save you a few bucks.

 

[PACNWDude]

VP8000 was what I ended up recommending for a fire station that needed interoperability for Delaware County, Ridley Park area of Pennsylvania.....was the only thing that would meet the requirements (employer is almost entirely Motorola and suggested APX8000 radios). Some thought I was shilling the VP8000 as I once worked for the JVC/Kenwood Group. Had to defend it based on capability not manufacturer.

We have a corporate requirement to standardize radio hardware when possible. But, in this case VP8000 radios were being purchased county wide, and we could get their bulk pricing discount if we purchased with them (or pay a lot more later when we would be forced that direction anyway due to Mutual Aid Agreements).

 

[novaman64]

The Motorola, BK and Harris won't do multiband + DMR, so those are out.

@DeoVindice is correct, the VP8000 is probably your best option if you already are comfortable with the Kenwood line. You can provision is with just the options you need and save some money. The accessory line up will give you the IP ratings you want.

The Tait TP-9700 and 9900 would be your other option. The 9900 gives you the option to do P25 in the future, and I'd carefully consider that.


As for the FPP,
Technically, it's not allowed under Part 90, but most ignore that. If you are planning on using it for amateur radio use, it'll work for 2 meters and 70 centimeters, but it has it's limitations. These radios have enough memory that it's easy to add another zone with all your amateur radio personalities in it and have room to spare. The FPP can add cost, and you may find that having a dedicated ham radio with VFO might make some more sense.

Some thoughts behind the FPP. In my county we typically have our primary (command) channel, then a secondary (tac) channel we use for team to team communications. All those are setup and programmed in, typically I will do a scan group with the 2 channels so I dont miss traffic on either channel. Occasionally we will be called out for a mutual aid search, and I wanted to be able to essentially create these scan channels after provided in our mission briefing without the need to be dragging a laptop out and re-programming my radio - most channels will already be programmed in as our state has a set of standard frequencies, but every county uses them a bit different.

 

[tweiss3]

I haven't actually gone through add/subtracting in a scan list, but on the VP8000 I believe both priority scan and RWS scan can be field edited without software. You could have your primary and secondary in the scan list, then add the other channels, as long as they are already in the radio.

I do know that when I bought FPP, I had to sign an acknowledgement that it won't be used on Part 90 frequencies. In Armada, you can lock zones so FPP isn't possible, allowing you to stay legal on the Part 90 side.

 

[novaman64]

One more option that you may have thought of. You could get a pair of NX-5200 & NX5300 and grab the band you need for each response. This would keep you in D1N and save you a few bucks.

Im not going to try and juggle 2 radios on my chest rig, the thought did very briefly cross my mind though.

 

[speedway_navigator]

Had to defend it based on capability not manufacturer.

I wonder if you would have been challenged if you had recommended Motorola.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I need something that can handle VHF and UHF, ideally could also have DMR enabled (not using now, but at a high level our Sheriff's office is talking about it in the future). Dont have my ham license yet, though plan on getting it soon, so FPP would be nice though not required.

I dont mind if the radio is used, but would need to be able to obtain programming software for it.

So far, the list I am looking at would be:
Tait TP9700 or TP9900
Motorola APX7000 or APX8000
Viking VP8000 (I really wish Kenwood would release their version as I already have KPG-D1N)
Bendix BK9000
Harris XL 200P

Any thoughts on which might work best, this radio will be in heat, pouring rain, snow, wildfire burns, etc. Will also need a good IP rated speaker/mic, and one with BT would be a huge bonus. Any handheld missing from my list that I should be considering?

Lots of info in here.

Just as a point 'Kenwood' isn't releasing 'their version' of the VP8000. It IS a Kenwood radio, but it won't be programmed by KPG-D1. It is strictly programmed using Armada.

If you MUST have multiband AND DMR, your options are Tait and Kenwood. If the sheriff office goes DMR and they buy through Motorola and it is Capacity Max or Capacity Plus system, you are SOL and WILL have to have a Motorola radio. If it is Capacity Max, it WILL have to be provisioned by the sheriff to operate on their system.

You may be best served with multiple portables, even if it's a PITA

 

[mmckenna]

Some thoughts behind the FPP. In my county we typically have our primary (command) channel, then a secondary (tac) channel we use for team to team communications. All those are setup and programmed in, typically I will do a scan group with the 2 channels so I dont miss traffic on either channel. Occasionally we will be called out for a mutual aid search, and I wanted to be able to essentially create these scan channels after provided in our mission briefing without the need to be dragging a laptop out and re-programming my radio - most channels will already be programmed in as our state has a set of standard frequencies, but every county uses them a bit different.

OK, that's the way fire agencies often use it.

Just be aware of the Part 90 requirements.

Still, VP8000 is your best bet for VHF + UHF and DMR.
I'd talk to all your surrounding agencies, get MOU's to use their channels, and have those programmed in ready to go. While FPP can solve some issues, it's not a good replacement for having the software.

 

[tweiss3]

Im not going to try and juggle 2 radios on my chest rig, the thought did very briefly cross my mind though.

I pulled it out of my reply, but they make cross-band cables for between the two NX mobile decks. My original thought is grab the radio that your primary channel is on. If your primary is UHF, but your secondary is VHF, you could have a zone that has UHF primary, and UHF relay which could be received by your car, and repeated out on the secondary channel via VHF deck. I have one, but I only use it for amateur radio. I removed that part of my response because the licensing is not straight forward for that scenario, and therefore I decided not to put it out there.

You may be best served with multiple portables, even if it's a PITA

This (if you are worried about software) may be your most simple scenario.

 

[CollinsURG]

Alinco DJ-MD5XLT

Dual Band with DMR
136-174 Mhz
400-480 Mhz
Part 90
Not waterproof but resistant to rain and dirt. Has seals on ports.

Very solid and great performance. I have a previous version. DJ-MD5TGP
Free programming software download. Uses USB micro cable.

Alinco DJ-MD5XLT Dual Band DMR 5W w/GPS Gen 3

Discover the Alinco DJ-MD5XLT, a powerful dual band DMR radio with GPS. Perfect for ham radio enthusiasts seeking reliable communication on the go!

www.gigaparts.com

The Alinco DJ-MD5 (including XLT/TGP models) is designed with an IP54-rated polycarbonate body.

IP54 Rating: This means the radio is protected against dust (limited ingress) and splashing water from any direction.
Rain Usage: While the IP54 rating means it can handle light rain or a splash, it is not waterproof and should not be submerged or exposed to heavy downpours.
Precautions: It is advised to avoid, or immediately wipe off, water or dust to ensure the longevity of the device.
Protection: The speaker/mic jack cover is a potential point of water ingress. Using a soft case (such as the ESC63) can provide extra protection in poor weather

 

[prcguy]

Lots of info in here.

You may be best served with multiple portables, even if it's a PITA

This is something to consider and I’ve run into problems many times showing up with just one radio and miss calls because when one radio is busy it can‘t receive or transmit on another channel and you will miss calls.

 

[novaman64]

Lots of info in here.

Just as a point 'Kenwood' isn't releasing 'their version' of the VP8000. It IS a Kenwood radio, but it won't be programmed by KPG-D1. It is strictly programmed using Armada.

If you MUST have multiband AND DMR, your options are Tait and Kenwood. If the sheriff office goes DMR and they buy through Motorola and it is Capacity Max or Capacity Plus system, you are SOL and WILL have to have a Motorola radio. If it is Capacity Max, it WILL have to be provisioned by the sheriff to operate on their system.

You may be best served with multiple portables, even if it's a PITA

Good to know. Our Sheriff's office uses Motorola, so sounds like I can wipe DMR off my requirements list.

 

[prcguy]

Good to know. Our Sheriff's office uses Motorola, so sounds like I can wipe DMR off my requirements list.

They could be using Motorola MOTOTRBO which is DMR.

 

[mmckenna]

Good to know. Our Sheriff's office uses Motorola, so sounds like I can wipe DMR off my requirements list.

That makes things a bit easier, but if you want a suitable radio for public safety applications and one that has suitable IP ratings, you are still back to the short list of:
Harris
Motorola
Tait
Kenwood
Bendix King

Kenwood, Tait and BK are probably your best bets if you are on a budget. You can provision with just the VHF and UHF bands and analog only. No need to load the radio down and drive up the cost.

If you are thinking about going with something off the used market, make sure you figure in the cost of:
Shop labor for alignment.
New battery
New antenna

Any used radio should get an alignment done since you have no assurances that it isn't out of spec and hasn't lead a very hard life.

 

[novaman64]

Harris and Motorola seem to be the most common on the used market. Can those be featured enabled via an update or do I need to locate one that is exactly as I need it? Example, if I find a Harris or Motorola that has VHF/800 can I swap 800 to UHF or is that not possible?

Any anybody have a recommendation on a dealer that can quote out a Viking for me? They used to be on my states gov contract list but doesnt look like they are anymore.

 

[mmckenna]

Harris and Motorola seem to be the most common on the used market. Can those be featured enabled via an update or do I need to locate one that is exactly as I need it? Example, if I find a Harris or Motorola that has VHF/800 can I swap 800 to UHF or is that not possible?

For the Motorola APX, you can, but it is not cheap. Make sure you get a price on the upgrade before purchasing the radio.
For the Harris XL-200, you can upgrade, but you'll need to work with a Harris dealer to get the new feature license.

Any anybody have a recommendation on a dealer that can quote out a Viking for me? They used to be on my states gov contract list but doesnt look like they are anymore.

The dealers are run by region, I think so you'd need to find who covers your area.

Contact Local Representative | JVCKENWOOD

www.efjohnson.com

Kenwood is under the NASPO/ValuePoint as well as Sourcewell contracts, so you should be able to request that pricing from the dealer. They may want something on an official letter head signed by someone saying you can purchase for your agency.

State Purchasing Contracts | JVCKENWOOD

KENWOOD Viking radios and ATLAS systems are available for purchase under a number of contract vehicles to help you easily acquire secure, reliable communication solutions. Designed for convenience and efficiency, contract vehicles simplify the procurement process, reduce costs, and save you...

www.efjohnson.com

One thing to keep in mind:
These radios will be forced to narrow band, so you need to consider using it on amateur radio.

The Kenwood gear often will often allow wide band on anything under 150MHz, so you are good for 2 meters. On 70cm, hams are a secondary allocation, and the radios will NOT do wide band on UHF. You will need to request wide band authorization if you expect to use it on the 70cm band.

Harris narrow bands everything, so if you need wide band on a Harris, you have to get a feature key to turn it on. They'll require you to fill out some paperwork and submit your licenses. Not difficult, but it does take some work.