scanners in aiports

[JoeyC]

A. Because they don't want to get sued when the "sticky shoe wearer" breaks his face because he doesn't slide "correctly", and/or
B. Because street shoes carry rocks and other garbage that mess up the approach.

So you missed the correlation. Maybe the airline doesn't want to get sued under the premise the airliner went down because someone was operating radio equipment in the cabin before its demise.

 

[DonS]

So you missed the correlation. Maybe the airline doesn't want to get sued under the premise the airliner went down because someone was operating radio equipment in the cabin before its demise.

I don't think I missed anything, at all.

If the bowling alley operator decided to allow street shoes, they'd deserve to get sued when someone "breaks their face". If the airline allows radio receivers, they'd deserve to get sued if someone can prove the device caused harm. Both entities, as a matter of policy, disallow the suspect behavior to save their own butts.

If the airline is concerned about this, then they'd need to ensure that their agents (flight crews) don't allow the "suspect" devices. If the flight crew does allow a specific device when asked for permission, it's hardly the passenger's responsibility (which, if we look back at my first post in this thread, was my whole point).

 

[sojo96]

swest90, thanks very much. he is being a very big jerk and thinks he knows more than he does. i emailed the tsa on friday about the issue. and well, today i got an email back. they state this... "The interference of electronic devices with aircraft avionics, communications, and navigation systems is an issue under the regulatory control of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as it relates to flight safety. The FAA has National Resource Specialists for electromagnetic interference that focus on the very issue you raised.
Transportation Security Administration scientists have discussed this concern repeatedly with the National Resource Specialists and have been assured that modern aircraft avionics, communications, and navigation systems will, by their design, not be damaged or placed in an unsafe condition by onboard emanations from passengers. It is the decision of the air carrier to allow or not allow the use of specific electronic devices. These decisions may be made based not only on electromagnetic emissions but also on potential passenger distraction when listening to instructions in an emergency, and the danger of having unrestrained hard heavy objects (electronics) bouncing around the cabin on take off and landing."

i then checked the faa website for more information on this. they state this... "Radios and other portable electronic devices, such as computers and headphones (regular or noise cancelling), are permitted if the operator of the aircraft determines they will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system.
The PILOT-IN-COMMAND HAS THE FINAL AUTHORITY ON ELECTRONIC DEVICES operated onboard any aircraft at any time."

N Jay, this means that the Pilot does have the final say on whether or not it can be used. which means it is not always the airlines call. this of course depends on the airline. one may say absolutly not and no exceptions. however according to w8jjr and DonS they ask permission and get a yes 75% of the time. N Jay you are just being rude and you think you're a know-it-all. Please do not post here again. I appologize for my ignerence. I will concider everything you have said. Thanks.

 

[sojo96]

read this http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/72f58116704fc3d986256a71006ed5b0/$FILE/AC91-21-1A.pdf

 

[JoeyC]

1. The TSA has absolutely no authority over what airlines do.

2. The airline owns the aircraft. The pilot is the employee. The airline has the final say from a legal standpoint how it operates its equipment. Most pilots aren't going to risk going against the employers rules. The pilot has the final authority on electronic devices operated aboard any aircraft at any time, and the pilot isn't going to circumvent the airlines policies for the benefit of one scanner listener aboard the plane.

If you did get aboard a commercial flight and the pilot gave you the go ahead to use a scanner in flight, he either didn't fully understand your question, or he's just an idiot and he's dead wrong, regardless.

 

[sojo96]

1. The TSA has absolutely no authority over what airlines do.

2. The airline owns the aircraft. The pilot is the employee. The airline has the final say from a legal standpoint how it operates its equipment. Most pilots aren't going to risk going against the employers rules. The pilot has the final authority on electronic devices operated aboard any aircraft at any time, and the pilot isn't going to circumvent the airlines policies for the benefit of one scanner listener aboard the plane.

If you did get aboard a commercial flight and the pilot gave you the go ahead to use a scanner in flight, he either didn't fully understand your question, or he's just an idiot and he's dead wrong, regardless.

no joey i dont think you read it right. idk why i came to you bone heads in the first place. i USED to think this was a freindly place. where i would kindly be told i was wrong. not be told i was an f-ing moron like njay said. i know i don't know everything, but neither does everyone else. n ppl like njay just act like what they say goes. you're like my damn uncle. jacka$$

 

[JoeyC]

no joey i dont think you read it right. idk why i came to you bone heads in the first place. i USED to think this was a freindly place. where i would kindly be told i was wrong. not be told i was an f-ing moron like njay said. i know i don't know everything, but neither does everyone else. n ppl like njay just act like what they say goes. you're like my damn uncle. jacka$$

I don't recall anyone calling you any names.

If you can't handle a conversation like an adult perhaps you shouldn't ask in the first place?

Afterall, this is a hobbyist website frequented by tons of people from all around the globe. If you want to buy gasoline, you don't look for it in a bakery, you go to a gas station. Similarly, if you want to know what airlines allow on their planes, you're most likely to get the most accurate answer from THE AIRLINE, not from a bunch of radio hobbyists on an internet forum.

 

[sojo96]

I don't recall anyone calling you any names.

If you can't handle a conversation like an adult perhaps you shouldn't ask in the first place?

Afterall, this is a hobbyist website frequented by tons of people from all around the globe. If you want to buy gasoline, you don't look for it in a bakery, you go to a gas station. Similarly, if you want to know what airlines allow on their planes, you're most likely to get the most accurate answer from THE AIRLINE, not from a bunch of radio hobbyists on an internet forum.

n jay or whatever his name did originally at the beginning. saying i was stupid for having to post it and this and that. go back and read it. maybe i think it's worse than it really is because it was directed towards me. oh and that i'm too not intelligent or w/e to use search. it's funny though because i post it again because new people have new ideas and new opinions. and yes i'm thinking i will call the airline. i wasnt looking for a 100% sure answer here. i was looking for people talking about their experiences with taking scanners and radio equipment online. and if they've had an incident where they were thrown off the plane or such an occurance happened. it's a discussion for information and for opinion. yes i was looking for someone who knew for sure and could give me a direct answer. that is because i'm busy packing and keeping track of stuff and such to be put on hold on the phone for a half hour. i have had previous posts and people on here were being really nice and i'm pretty new to scanning and such and was looking for what people thought and their opinions and any factual information that may come of it, great!.. and i take everything that everyone says into concideration. no matter how rude people like n jay may be.

holding a conversation like an adult doesnt have all that much to do with it. adults are human and lose tempers. children are human and lose tempers. that's what happened, i lost my temper a little bit and i am sorry if i offended anyone.

 

[JoeyC]

Your question was answered with the very first post, and continously throughout this 5 page thread. It also has been discussed for years, almost monthly, so, take that as you may. Good luck on your trip.

 

[N_Jay]

swest90, thanks very much. he is being a very big jerk and thinks he knows more than he does. i emailed the tsa on friday about the issue. and well, today i got an email back. they state this... "The interference of electronic devices with aircraft avionics, communications, and navigation systems is an issue under the regulatory control of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as it relates to flight safety. The FAA has National Resource Specialists for electromagnetic interference that focus on the very issue you raised.
Transportation Security Administration scientists have discussed this concern repeatedly with the National Resource Specialists and have been assured that modern aircraft avionics, communications, and navigation systems will, by their design, not be damaged or placed in an unsafe condition by onboard emanations from passengers. It is the decision of the air carrier to allow or not allow the use of specific electronic devices. These decisions may be made based not only on electromagnetic emissions but also on potential passenger distraction when listening to instructions in an emergency, and the danger of having unrestrained hard heavy objects (electronics) bouncing around the cabin on take off and landing."

i then checked the faa website for more information on this. they state this... "Radios and other portable electronic devices, such as computers and headphones (regular or noise cancelling), are permitted if the operator of the aircraft determines they will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system.
The PILOT-IN-COMMAND HAS THE FINAL AUTHORITY ON ELECTRONIC DEVICES operated onboard any aircraft at any time."

N Jay, this means that the Pilot does have the final say on whether or not it can be used. which means it is not always the airlines call. this of course depends on the airline. one may say absolutly not and no exceptions. however according to w8jjr and DonS they ask permission and get a yes 75% of the time. N Jay you are just being rude and you think you're a know-it-all. Please do not post here again. I appologize for my ignerence. I will concider everything you have said. Thanks.

The determination
of the effect of a particular device on the navigation and communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used or operated must, in case of an aircraft operated by the holder of an air carrier certificate or other operating certificate, be made by that operator (i.e., certificate holder). In all other cases, a determination must be made and it may be made by the operator and/or the pilot-in-command (PIC).

 

[N_Jay]

1. The TSA has absolutely no authority over what airlines do.

2. The airline owns the aircraft. The pilot is the employee. The airline has the final say from a legal standpoint how it operates its equipment. Most pilots aren't going to risk going against the employers rules. The pilot has the final authority on electronic devices operated aboard any aircraft at any time, and the pilot isn't going to circumvent the airlines policies for the benefit of one scanner listener aboard the plane.

If you did get aboard a commercial flight and the pilot gave you the go ahead to use a scanner in flight, he either didn't fully understand your question, or he's just an idiot and he's dead wrong, regardless.

Read this;

The determination of the effect of a particular device on the navigation and communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used or operated must, in case of an aircraft operated by the holder of an air carrier certificate or other operating certificate, be made by that operator (i.e., certificate holder). In all other cases, a determination must be made and it may be made by the operator and/or the pilot-in-command (PIC).

The certificate holder is the airline, NOT the pilot!

 

[N_Jay]

n jay or whatever his name did originally at the beginning. saying i was stupid for having to post it and this and that. go back and read it. maybe i think it's worse than it really is because it was directed towards me. oh and that i'm too not intelligent or w/e to use search. it's funny though because i post it again because new people have new ideas and new opinions. and yes i'm thinking i will call the airline. i wasnt looking for a 100% sure answer here. i was looking for people talking about their experiences with taking scanners and radio equipment online. and if they've had an incident where they were thrown off the plane or such an occurance happened. it's a discussion for information and for opinion. yes i was looking for someone who knew for sure and could give me a direct answer. that is because i'm busy packing and keeping track of stuff and such to be put on hold on the phone for a half hour. i have had previous posts and people on here were being really nice and i'm pretty new to scanning and such and was looking for what people thought and their opinions and any factual information that may come of it, great!.. and i take everything that everyone says into concideration. no matter how rude people like n jay may be.

holding a conversation like an adult doesnt have all that much to do with it. adults are human and lose tempers. children are human and lose tempers. that's what happened, i lost my temper a little bit and i am sorry if i offended anyone.

Hey, I didn't call you stupid, I just pointed out all teh errors in your line of thinking.

You are the one who chose to continue to argue those points.

(Well, I guess if the shoe fits)

 

[Stick0413]

Why do bowling alley owners get so upset about bowlers who aren't wearing bowling shoes?? :roll:

Because someone could break their neck and they could sue us. We have been sued for someone falling because they missed a plainly marked step. Our insrance settled out of court though.

Back on topic

Who really cares if someone uses a scanner on a plane? I am not worried about it because I know its not going to seriously cause any harm. As I stated (and someone else did too) if there was a chance that could happen it would not be allowed past security period.

 

[sojo96]

Hey, I didn't call you stupid, I just pointed out all teh errors in your line of thinking.

You are the one who chose to continue to argue those points.

(Well, I guess if the shoe fits)

well i did get back into it but it was others who started argueing while i wasnt even at the computer. nor even at home. but because of this it intrigued me. yeah i cant spell, and i dont take punc or spellin seriously but that doesnt mean you have to rip on me man. can't you just kindly tell me what is wrong with my thinking. i still see no proof. you just posted a thing that said and/or the pilot in command. the pilot is in control of the aircraft. he is the decider for every decision on the plane once it is away from the gate. it is not nesc a legal matter because according to the tsa nor the faa they didnt tell me that it was illegal. in fact the tsa wrote me back and told me that the faa scientists assure them that no electronic devices cause harm to the aircraft. so what do you have to say about that though? i appologize that i dont get it. i'm not a 40 year old guy who's been scanning and have had a ham license for 20 years. in fact i'm not even 20 years old. i have no ham license. and just started scanning as a hobby a couple years ago. i'd be the first to admit i dont know much about this stuff, however i am also a very very avid aviation enthusiast for many many years since i was a little little kid. i've been on flights with people useing their cell phones, and a flight attendent walks right by. the point i'm trying to make though is that even though it MAY be illegal, (even though it's only a policy, it's no a law that will cuase jail or fine. just getting kicked off the flight) people do it anyways. and if it hasnt proven except in a one in a billion chance that it will effect anything on that aircraft, then i'm going to do it unless they tell me otherwise. or else i'll ask them. and yes after these talks i think i'm going to ask them. and because the PIC is in control of the aircraft, i dont see why he could not make the call. he knows the aircraft inside and out. and probobly at least twice as better as anyone in the legal area who would make the call. plus how do you know that the airline doesnt let the pilot make those kinds of decisions? they're not idiots you know. you dont know unless you ask. and if the pilot didnt think it was safe, then i respect that. however if he says its ok, i'm going to do it. because i still dont believe it will casue any damage. only one case as been sighted, and it was sighted as that it may have played a factor. not that it was proven. thanks

 

[N4JNW]

Wow... we have a poll now? Or did I just miss it the whole time?

 

[sojo96]

Wow... we have a poll now? Or did I just miss it the whole time?

i just put it up at like 11pm eastern. maybe it was closer to midnight.

 

[SkipSanders]

Probably should have put this here, rather than in the California thread:

Just to cover the 'does X airline allow it?', here's a quick gathering of airline rules regarding personal electronic devices, from their current websites. Note that not a single one allows scanners (AM-FM transmitters-receivers) in flight.

American Airlines:

Electronic Equipment/Personal Devices

All portable electronic devices must remain off and properly stowed during taxi, takeoff, approach, and landing until the plane is at the gate and the seat belt sign is off.

Cellphones may be used on certain aircraft after landing in the U.S., the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico, once authorized by a flight attendant. Your flight attendant
will tell you when you may use approved portable electronic devices in-flight. Devices
with transmitting capabilities may only be used if the transmit capability is turned off
and can be verified by a flight attendant

(example: combination cellphone/PDA devices or laptop computers with wireless capabilities).

During flight, never use cellphones (to make or receive calls), two-way pagers,
radios, TV sets, remote controls (example: DVD, CD, game, or toy remote controls),
a cordless computer mouse, commercial TV cameras, or Global Positioning Systems.

Radio transmission using personal communications devices (example: walkie-talkies,
two-way pagers, or wireless headphones) is prohibited, as it may interfere with the aircraft's communications and navigation systems.

Devices that could cause damage to equipment or that may diminish the design,
function, or capability of the aircraft are prohibited. You may use audio and video
devices only with a headset. Use of still and video cameras, film or digital, is
permitted only for recording personal events. Photography or video recording
of airline personnel, equipment, or procedures is strictly prohibited.*

----------
Continental Airlines:

Electronic DevicesLiability
Continental will not accept liability for computers or computer related equipment when accepted as checked baggage. Small laptop computers may be considered as carry-on baggage.

Personal Electronic Devices
It has been determined that certain electronic devices could cause minor interference with aircraft navigational instruments. Therefore, restrictions on the use of personal electronic devices are necessary.

Passengers may turn on and use cellular phones only when the main cabin door is open. Pagers may be used to receive messages at any time.

Devices that may be used only when announced by the flight attendants and the aircraft is above 10,000 feet in altitude:

electronic games
personal computers
entertainment players
recorders (audio and/or video, such as tape/CD/MiniDisc/MP3 players and camcorders)
calculators
shavers
cameras
aircraft power ports for laptops.
Devices that are not permitted for use at any time:

battery operated personal air-purifying device
TVs
radio receivers and/or transmitters (including AM/FM/SW, CB and scanners)
remote-control toys.
Passengers must not wear Continental-provided headsets and should not wear personal headsets during taxi, takeoff and landing.

Passengers may always use any medically prescribed, physiological instrument, such as a hearing aid or a pacemaker.
----------

Delta Airlines:

Portable Electronic Devices
It's never been so cool to be a geek but there's a few things you'll need to know about operating your gadgets
on board our planes. Your flight crew will remind you again, but it's always good to know ahead of time.

While these are good general guidelines, remember that the flight crew may, at any time, ask you to turn off
a portable electronic device for safety reasons.

Devices You Can't Use
For safety reasons, you may not operate the following devices onboard:

Two-way transmitters such as walkie-talkies, amateur radios, citizen band (CB) radios, 49 MHz transmitters
Devices designed to radiate radio frequency energy on specific frequencies
Peripheral devices for computers or games connected by cable
AM/FM radios
Portable television sets
Remote control toys


Devices You Can Sometimes Use
You can only use these devices while the plane is at the gate with the doors open or after the plane has landed
and is taxiing to the gate.

cellular phones
one and two-way pagers

You can use the following devices while the plane is at the gate with the doors open, after the plane has taken
off and reached its cruising altitude and before it begins to descend for landing.

Personal computers
Personal computer peripheral devices
Compact disc players
Digital cassette tape player/recorders
Video recorder/playback systems
Calculators

You can use these while the plane is at the gate with the doors open, after the plane has taken off and reached
its cruising altitude and before it begins to descend for landing, and after the plane has landed and is taxiing
to the gate.

Personal digital assistants
Personal computer games
GPS (global positioning satellite) systems
Your flight attendant will announce when it is safe to use these devices.

Devices You Can Always Use
You may use the following devices at any time:

Hearing aids
Heart pacemakers and other implanted medical devices
Electronic watches
Electronic nerve stimulators
Electric shavers
Delta's installed equipment
Acceptable personal life support systems and accompanying pagers
--------

United Airlines:

Electronic devices
Certain electronic devices may not be used on our planes for safety reasons. Such devices may cause electromagnetic
interference with cockpit navigation or communications systems during ground operations and while the aircraft is
flying below 10,000 feet. However, when an aircraft is traveling above 10,000 feet (normally about ten minutes
after takeoff), passengers can use many of the devices listed.

Hearing aids, heart pacemakers, and watches are acceptable at all times.

These electronic devices can be used in the cabin, but may not be used during takeoff and landing:
Calculators
Handheld computer games
Shavers
Portable CD and tape players
Laptop computers/accessory printers/tape drives
Portable VCRs/video players

These electronic devices cannot be used on the airplane at any time:
Cellular phones (cellular phones maybe used on the plane at the gate before the aircraft door is closed or at
captain's discretion when the plane is away from the gate and on the ground)
Televisions
AM/FM transmitters-receivers
Remote-controlled toys
----------

Northwest Airlines:

Electronic Devices

On board the Aircraft: Certain electronic devices may not be used on Northwest aircraft for safety reasons.
Such devices may cause electromagnetic interference with cockpit navigation or communications systems during
ground operations and while the aircraft is flying below 10,000 feet. However, when an aircraft is traveling
above 10,000 feet (normally about ten minutes after takeoff), passengers can use many electronic devices.

Electronic devices that can be used at all times

Hearing aids
Heart pacemakers
Watches

Electronic devices that can be used on board the aircraft, but may not be used during takeoff and landing:

Laptop computers
Portable CD and tape players
Calculators
Portable DVD players
Handheld computer games

Electronic devices that cannot be used on the airplane at any time:

Cellular phones
AM/FM transmitters-receivers
Televisions
Remote-controlled toys
Personal Air Purifier

Personal Camera Equipment: Northwest allows passengers to carry on cameras in addition to the normal carry-on
luggage allowance.

 

[JoeyC]

Read this;

The determination of the effect of a particular device on the navigation and communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used or operated must, in case of an aircraft operated by the holder of an air carrier certificate or other operating certificate, be made by that operator (i.e., certificate holder). In all other cases, a determination must be made and it may be made by the operator and/or the pilot-in-command (PIC).

The certificate holder is the airline, NOT the pilot!

I never said the pilot was the certificate holder. I should have used quotes when I quoted what the other guy wrote.

 

[JoeyC]

Because someone could break their neck and they could sue us. We have been sued for someone falling because they missed a plainly marked step. Our insrance settled out of court though.

Back on topic

Who really cares if someone uses a scanner on a plane? I am not worried about it because I know its not going to seriously cause any harm. As I stated (and someone else did too) if there was a chance that could happen it would not be allowed past security period.

Same for the airline.

I guess that means you guys do not allow street shoes past the front door of the bowling alley? By your comparison, street shoes must remain outside the bowling alley and simply storing them in the storage area off of peoples feet is not enough. This amounts to exactly the same principal of allowing radios/scanners or whatever onto the plane, in the off position.

Apparently somebody cares, every airline prohibits their use in flight...

 

[gmclam]

I've traveled on airlines with scanners in the past. I've listened to them (using earbuds) at the gate while waiting for my flight but then I pack them in my carry-on, with the batteries and antenna removed from the receiver. I would not consider using them once aboard a plane.

Remember this is not some law in a city that bans use of scanners. You're dealing with FEDERAL LAWS here. While these things may be "harmless", I'd hate to be responsible for interfering with navigation, communication, or some other system.