SDS100/SDS200: SDS and Unication technology

[werinshades]

If you apply it, you're giving it a trial run before it's being publicly released. If it degrades your scanner's performance, you can fall back to the public release. No harm in trying if you're comfortable with the method of uploading it to your scanner. UPMan welcomes feedback and even has a format to report "issues" via Debug files.

 

[jimv]

Agree with many of the posts. It's all about what your needs and wants are. This discussion should help those Uniden prospective owners understand our personal stories related to the SDS and Unication technologies. I own a Home Patrol 1, BCD436HP, G5, and SDS100. I live about 40 miles northwest of Washington DC and about 40 miles east of Baltimore. There are many trunked public safety radio systems in this region.

Both my G5 and SDS have the latest firmware, with the SDS the latest public beta. As it turns out for long distance monitoring of one system at a time, the G5 is superior. When I purchased the SDS, I was really hoping to scan multiple longer distance systems with the performance of the G5. That's not happening.

However, the SDS100 does a much better job compared to my 436. Where I live in Frederick, MD I could not receive the Adams Co., PA Phase II system or the Carroll Co., MD Phase I system. Now with the SDS I always receive those systems. With the SDS I also sometimes receive the York Co., PA system; although, the G5 always receives that system from my house...again, it's long distance.

These few personal comparisons are with the G5 and SDS connected to an 800 MHz yagi on the roof...and NOT at the same time. My personal experience with the yagi is I rarely have to rotate it. To offer a simple comparison take a look at the following 1.5 minute video I just created and posted on YouTube. I offer the reception of the Washington DC system with the G5, then disconnect the coax from the unit and connect it to the SDS while it's on system hold on the DC P25 Phase II system. You'll notice the SDS doesn't lock onto the control channel. Here's the video: https://youtu.be/IipF9QsXNFE

It is what it is. My experience is the SDS does do an excellent job with my stronger systems and of course offers me the ability to scan and receive those systems more effectively and even ones I couldn't receive with my 436. However, for long distance P25 reception the G5 is hands down the best performer.

Will I get rid of the SDS? Absolutely not. I am now researching the possibility of purchasing an 800 MHz multicoupler to split the yagi to the G5 and SDS. That ultimately will meet my need of monitoring the long distance systems I want to hear from my house as well as effectively scanning the closer-in systems.

 

[buddrousa]

This would give you more options for the same money as the 800mhz version.
https://www.scannermaster.com/4_Port_MCA204M_VHF_UHF_Receiver_Multicoupler_p/02-530557.htm

 

[jimv]

This would give you more options for the same money as the 800mhz version.
https://www.scannermaster.com/4_Port_MCA204M_VHF_UHF_Receiver_Multicoupler_p/02-530557.htm

Thank you. I'm considering the wide band one but I don't want to jeopardize any performance in the 700/800 MHz range. I'm a retired DCFD firefighter and I enjoy listening to my brothers and sisters. The G5 has been a phenomenal performer for receiving the DC system from my house. If I split the yagi I really can't afford to lose much performance as I'm on the fringe as it is...40 miles.

 

[Ubbe]

The multicoupler have a 3.5dB noise figure which is probably the same NF value your scanner has so it will not improve your reception and perhaps even degrade it. Instead of that, use a 1dB NF, or better, amplifier directly at the antenna that will make the coax attenuation redundant and use a seperate splitter down at the scanners. You will gain more than 2dB from the NF figure alone and then add the gain that no-loss coax @800MHz will give compared to the current one you use.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Line...A-103-Bias-Tee-ESD-Stabilization/282883786525
https://www.ebay.com/p/Bias-Tee-Wid...SDR-LNA-Low-Noise-Amplifier-50vdc/2118865505?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIM-11-412...ter-5-900MHz-20-db-Isolation-NEW/200756000986
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Goobay-Adjustable-attenuator-0-20dB-F-male-to-F-male-67009/282941627117

/Ubbe

 

[jimv]

The multicoupler have a 3.5dB noise figure which is probably the same NF value your scanner has so it will not improve your reception and perhaps even degrade it. Instead of that, use a 1dB NF, or better, amplifier directly at the antenna that will make the coax attenuation redundant and use a seperate splitter down at the scanners. You will gain more than 2dB from the NF figure alone and then add the gain that no-loss coax @800MHz will give compared to the current one you use.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Line...A-103-Bias-Tee-ESD-Stabilization/282883786525
https://www.ebay.com/p/Bias-Tee-Wid...SDR-LNA-Low-Noise-Amplifier-50vdc/2118865505?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIM-11-412...ter-5-900MHz-20-db-Isolation-NEW/200756000986
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Goobay-Adjustable-attenuator-0-20dB-F-male-to-F-male-67009/282941627117

/Ubbe

Your insights are much appreciated. Thank you very much.

 

[buddrousa]

Ubbe this is an active combiner each port has 1DB GAIN not LOSS
I use 2 8 ports providing 16 ports from my 1 antenna not a loss.

The MCA204M is a specially designed multicoupler for use in the VHF/UHF service band for radio monitoring and signal surveillance.
Its high performance and rugged design will meet the most stringent commercial and government requirements.

MCA204M can support up to four (4) devices such as radios or spectrum analyzers. The four outputs has a gain of +4 dB with a nominal impedance of 50 Ohm. The input circuitry features a 5-section high-pass filter to shape the frequency response of the unit and to provide for out-of-band signal rejection.

The MCA204M is constructed in a rugged die cast aluminum enclosure with mounting flanges. Black powder coating is standard with light Gray enamel (Mil) and olive drab (green/Mil) available on QTY 5 and up.

DC power required is +12 Volts (nominal) at 100 mA.
A wall adapter (110 VAC/+12 VDC-300 mA) is supplied for the North American market.
Optional EMI/RFI filtered DC feed thru for hard wiring is also available.

 

[Ubbe]

Stridsberg is an active splitter aka multicoupler and add 3.5dB noise to the signal it receives, a loss that cannot be compensated for by adding gain as that signal are lost forever. The coax from the antenna also degrade the signal before the multicoupler receives it.

A receive antenna for scanner use often have big variation in its impedance that will give a huge mismatch to the coax that will degrade the signal even more outside of an antennas tuned frequency. Adding an amplifier between antenna and coax will act as a buffer and keep the impedance to the coax at a constant value and make the coax more efficient, not that you need it anyway with an amplifier as you then easily overcome any coax irregularaties by the increased signal level.

Stridsbergs multicoupler are a distribution splitter that needs an already good and strong signal feeding it to make the best use of it. If you are trying to receive signals that bareley decode and have a lot of noise in it, a multicoupler would not be your first choice.

/Ubbe

 

[buddrousa]

I have to disagree with you along with every other Stridsberg owner. CATV amps are not designed for scanners or receivers also I had more noise from a 8 port variable CATV amp proven with a HP Service Monitor when I replaced the 8 port CATV amp with my Stridesbergs the noise went away and the distant signals started being received. I have found other RF receiver splitters combiners that work but needs amps to over come loss. Look at port to port isolation on a service monitor with a stridesberg hooked up compaired to a BNC T or CATV Splitter. I trust my HP Service Monitor.

https://forums.radioreference.com/g...2-multiple-receiver-question.html#post2991245

 

[bob550]

I have owned a G4 and he’s spot on
It’s a great pager don’t get me wrong, but it’s not one size fits all.

It’s good if you don’t have a lot of P25 systems to monitor, it works pretty much like a system radio

So, let's say that I primarily only monitor my local Albany County P25 Phase 1 system; one system with three sites and approximately 150 talkgroups. I am attracted to the small size of the Unications, as my previous go-to scanner for monitoring local public safety had been my Icom R5. My "signature" displays everything I currently own, so I have the ability to monitor VHF/UHF frequencies pretty much covered. All things considered, do you feel this makes me a good candidate for a G4 or G5?

 

[WX4JCW]

So, let's say that I primarily only monitor my local Albany County P25 Phase 1 system; one system with three sites and approximately 150 talkgroups. I am attracted to the small size of the Unications, as my previous go-to scanner for monitoring local public safety had been my Icom R5. My "signature" displays everything I currently own, so I have the ability to monitor VHF/UHF frequencies pretty much covered. All things considered, do you feel this makes me a good candidate for a G4 or G5?

As long as you understand there is no talkgroup hold in scan mode, it’s up to you, it will work well performance wise


Sent from my iPhone 8 using Tapatalk Pro
Jason WX4JCW
XPR7550 - SDS100

 

[Citywide173]

As long as you understand there is no talkgroup hold in scan mode, it’s up to you, it will work well performance wise


Sent from my iPhone 8 using Tapatalk Pro
Jason WX4JCW
XPR7550 - SDS100

How many talkgroups are you scanning of those 150? Although the above statement is true, the pager can be configured to scan multiple talkgroups on knob position one of a zone and then to scan only one talkgroup on the other positions (7 single/1 multiple). You might need more zones with individual talkgroups on the knob positions to cover everything you want the ability to isolate on, but there are workarounds.

 

[WX4JCW]

How many talkgroups are you scanning of those 150? Although the above statement is true, the pager can be configured to scan multiple talkgroups on knob position one of a zone and then to scan only one talkgroup on the other positions (7 single/1 multiple). You might need more zones with individual talkgroups on the knob positions to cover everything you want the ability to isolate on, but there are workarounds.

I am aware, it’s just an issue that should be addressed, I was being honest in answering his question, it will work but it has some issues

And it doesn’t matter if there are 150 or 2 in the scanlist


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[bob550]

How many talkgroups are you scanning of those 150? Although the above statement is true, the pager can be configured to scan multiple talkgroups on knob position one of a zone and then to scan only one talkgroup on the other positions (7 single/1 multiple). You might need more zones with individual talkgroups on the knob positions to cover everything you want the ability to isolate on, but there are workarounds.

I regularly scan around 115 talkgroups, but I have isolated my local town frequencies in a separate Favorite List in my 536 should I care to scan those alone. That FL also includes analog VHF frequencies that continue to be in use in my town for now. It appears the Unications would be fine for my purposes, but I need to study more Youtube videos to be comfortable with the different programming conventions, especially the use of zones and knob positions.

 

[troymail]

It really comes down to how many talkgroups are programmed into a knob and how busy those talkgroups are....

For my home area, the county only has 18 talkgroups (plus some state TGs that are used from time to time in the area). I create a knob with ALL 18+ talkgroups and "scan" all of them when I'm actively monitoring. I have another knob where I only has "fire" talkgroups programmed and yet another that only has "fire tac" programmed. When something of interest is heard and I want to monitor a specific talkgroup (or at least smaller set of talkgroups), I simply switch to of the knobs I have programmed for that (i.e. "fire only" or "fire tac only" or "sheriff only", etc.). Over time, I've created many different configurations to tweak and achieve my needs.

I realize this is a bit more challenging on a larger more chatty system but it can be done.

I'm surrounded by radios here in my den but the only one monitoring the P25 system 100% of the time right now is my G5.

 

[bob550]

It really comes down to how many talkgroups are programmed into a knob and how busy those talkgroups are....

For my home area, the county only has 18 talkgroups (plus some state TGs that are used from time to time in the area). I create a knob with ALL 18+ talkgroups and "scan" all of them when I'm actively monitoring. I have another knob where I only has "fire" talkgroups programmed and yet another that only has "fire tac" programmed. When something of interest is heard and I want to monitor a specific talkgroup (or at least smaller set of talkgroups), I simply switch to of the knobs I have programmed for that (i.e. "fire only" or "fire tac only" or "sheriff only", etc.). Over time, I've created many different configurations to tweak and achieve my needs.

I realize this is a bit more challenging on a larger more chatty system but it can be done.

I'm surrounded by radios here in my den but the only one monitoring the P25 system 100% of the time right now is my G5.

So, do I understand correctly that the Unication knob positions can serve as the equivalent to the Uniden Favorite Lists, with a limitation of 7?

 

[troymail]

So, do I understand correctly that the Unication knob positions can serve as the equivalent to the Uniden Favorite Lists, with a limitation of 7?

I'd be careful about trying to compare one to the other due to limitations (i.e. you can't mix trunked and conventional in one knob, can only monitor a single system and it's sites in any given knob, etc.).

You have 64 "zones" to work with - and each one contains 8 "knob" positions. Switching knob positions to something else is as easy as it sounds - just turn the knob. Switching zones to get to a different 8 knobs requires some button pushes.

 

[Citywide173]

I am aware, it’s just an issue that should be addressed, I was being honest in answering his question, it will work but it has some issues

And it doesn’t matter if there are 150 or 2 in the scanlist


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I agree 100%, but if he primarily listens to 7-14 talkgroups, you can isolate out pretty well within a zone. If there's more, it becomes more challenging.

 

[bob550]

I'd be careful about trying to compare one to the other due to limitations (i.e. you can't mix trunked and conventional in one knob, can only monitor a single system and it's sites in any given knob, etc.).

You have 64 "zones" to work with - and each one contains 8 "knob" positions. Switching knob positions to something else is as easy as it sounds - just turn the knob. Switching zones to get to a different 8 knobs requires some button pushes.

So you can have up to 64 zones with up to 8 knob positions each? Perhaps it would make sense to download the programming software to test out various configurations before coming to any purchase conclusions.

 

[troymail]

Perhaps it would make sense to download the programming software to test out various configurations before coming to any purchase conclusions.

Certainly an option. .