SDS100 issues with P25

[Maddogz4]

I have had my SDS100 now for almost three weeks and have spent many hours comparing to my 436HP. I have also been keeping up with the latest firmware 1.05b and reading many threads. I am in Michigan which my counties use the P25 Phase 1. There are certain TG’s that I just can not pick up on my SDS100 and they are crystal clear on my 436HP. Some counties I have tested compare equally with both scanners and at times SDS100 picks up more and other times it’s missing where the 436 is not. I understand as it scans through the sites it may miss a quick communication but that was not the case. I am using the same favorite list on both and have tried switching antennas with no luck among other things I have tried. Even when I lock on a site/talkgroup still won’t hear anything on certain TG’s. For example I can not pick up anything from Wayne County for Detroit Dispatch but my 436 picks up many of the precincts. In Iosco County my 436 picks up police dispatch but I just can’t get the SDS100 to pick it up. I am just not sure what to do at this point, wait it out and hope by following the threads firmware will eventually make this scanner perform better so I can pick up what I am missing out on that I enjoy listening too now. I really like this scanner but only have one more week to decide to return it. I am learning all the time and enjoy learning but just don’t know enough to fully understand what may need tweaking.

 

[mtindor]

Being I'm not from Michigan, I don't fully understand what system / sites / talkgroups you are trying to monitor. I would, however, advise a few things if you are having issues -- and I'll assume you will do this from within Sentinel and save the settings to the scanner (but if you know how, you can do these from the scanner itself).

1. Make sure Location Based Scanning is DISabled for your Favorites List

Sentinel --> Favorites List Editor -- Edit the favorites list -- Options --> Location Control: NO

2. Make sure the systems, sites, and departments are enabled (not avoided) for scanning

3. Disable silly stuff that just interferes with troubleshooting

Sentinel --> Edit Profile
--> Miscellaneous
- Priority Mode: OFF
- Global Attenuator: OFF

Service Types --> Enable all Service Types

Close Call Mode: OFF

Of course you have to save all of that stuff and upload it to the scanner. My concern would be the possbility that you have location-based scanning enabled but not correctly functioning. So my first thought is simply to make sure you have location based scanning disabled. Then, I'd make sure all Service Types are enabled. Then I'd make sure that all Systems / Sites / Departments / Talkgroups that I want to monitor were NOT avoided.

Based upon the countless reports of issues from people on the forums, I think a lot of it stems from one or more of the above not being set up properly.

I had a lot of trouble [mentally] figuring out how to properly do the location based scanning, and I wasn't hearing anything I wanted to hear / expected to hear. I did what I outlined above, and in my case the scanner suddenly came to life and I've been loving it ever since.

The more "features" you enable before you get a good grasp on how to operate the scanner, the more likely one of those features is going to interfere with expected operation.

Just my $0.02. I'm sure you'll get some better help than I'm able to give.

Mike

 

[Maddogz4]

Thank you for the input, thats what I have been looking for, other options to try. As I mentioned this works well with certain TG's but not on others. I have been using location based scanning, I have tried attenuator off and on but generally I leave it off. I am learning all the time by reading the forums. I do not have all service types on but will try turning them all on. Also a question, when I turn off location control it will then scan all sites in Michigan being they are all under the MPSCS (Project P25 Phase 1) which then of course I will miss more because there are so many sites. Do I go in to my favorites and delete the sites that are far away or is there a better method? Thank you so much for the tips and advise, I love this scanner and just want it to pick up what my 436 is. I will try what you suggested later today when I am home from work.

 

[jonwienke]

Thank you for the input, thats what I have been looking for, other options to try. As I mentioned this works well with certain TG's but not on others.

Make note of which SITES you're monitoring when the scanner has issues. If the scanner can hear the site clearly, then you will not have issues receiving any non-encrypted TG broadcast from that site. It's probably not the TG you're having issues with, it's the site broadcasting the TG. It may simply be too far away to receive reliably unless you get an outdoor antenna.

If you're going to compare scanners, connect them both to the same antenna. Otherwise you're comparing antennas and antenna locations, not just scanners.

 

[Maddogz4]

Thats the thing, I have tried the same antenna (Radio Shack 800mhz) on both scanners where my 436HP picks up many TG's with no issues but SDS100 will not. I sure would think the SDS100 should have equally as good of reception as the 436HP if not better. As I mention I am still learning but at times when I am running the two scanners side by side I am hearing the same TG ID conversation but my SDS100 is displaying a different site than the SDS100, is that normal? I would think they would both pick up and use the same site, not sure. Thanks for the input, always appreciated.

 

[jonwienke]

If you have multiple sites programmed, then the scanner will scan all the sites it thinks are within range. If a TG is broadcast from more than one site, it is totally normal for 2 scanners to hear the transmission on different sites. It all depends on which site each scanner was on when the transmission started.

Your problem is most likely that the Service Types enabled in the SDS100 are not the same as those enabled in the 436. If the scanners can both hear traffic from a site, then differences in what TGs are received are almost always due to scanner settings, not reception problems.

 

[troymail]

Thats the thing, I have tried the same antenna (Radio Shack 800mhz) on both scanners where my 436HP picks up many TG's with no issues but SDS100 will not. I sure would think the SDS100 should have equally as good of reception as the 436HP if not better. As I mention I am still learning but at times when I am running the two scanners side by side I am hearing the same TG ID conversation but my SDS100 is displaying a different site than the SDS100, is that normal? I would think they would both pick up and use the same site, not sure. Thanks for the input, always appreciated.

Talkgroups can and are generally active across multiple systems sites at any given time.

Depending upon how busy a system/site is, it can be nearly impossible to have both radios operating in sync and always hearing the exact same thing without applying some type of limiting factor(s):

- limited sites (as in 1 site)
- limited talkgroups

Even then, with multiple talkgroups enabled, you can still easily get out of sync.

Now, if you are scanning a (the same) limited number of things and one radio is actively "talking" and the other is not, there's a reception issue.

 

[AvidHiker]

Yeah, when making comparisons, try using a "site hold" to lock both radios to the same site. Also, FWIW, on my local P25 phase 2 simulcast, I've found that any squelch setting higher than 1 can cause the SDS to miss traffic that the 436 is picking up just fine. Note that my squelch observation was with the current official firmware, I know the beta has addressed that issue to some extent.

 

[Maddogz4]

If you have multiple sites programmed, then the scanner will scan all the sites it thinks are within range. If a TG is broadcast from more than one site, it is totally normal for 2 scanners to hear the transmission on different sites. It all depends on which site each scanner was on when the transmission started.

Your problem is most likely that the Service Types enabled in the SDS100 are not the same as those enabled in the 436. If the scanners can both hear traffic from a site, then differences in what TGs are received are almost always due to scanner settings, not reception problems.

Thank you for the info Jon, if I turn off location control as mtindor suggested it scans all sites, is there something I am missing so this wont happen other than deleting those sites from my FL?

 

[UPMan]

Use location control and make sure your current location is set (ZIP should work, although you can be more precise, if desired, by setting actual lat/lon and range of 0). That will disable all sites outside of your immediate area.

 

[Maddogz4]

Yeah, when making comparisons, try using a "site hold" to lock both radios to the same site. Also, FWIW, on my local P25 phase 2 simulcast, I've found that any squelch setting higher than 1 can cause the SDS to miss traffic that the 436 is picking up just fine. Note that my squelch observation was with the current official firmware, I know the beta has addressed that issue to some extent.

I have tried a lower squelch setting than 2 but no luck but not sure if I have tried with the 1.05b firmware that I am currently using, I will test again just to be sure....thanks

 

[Maddogz4]

Use location control and make sure your current location is set (ZIP should work, although you can be more precise, if desired, by setting actual lat/lon and range of 0). That will disable all sites outside of your immediate area.

I have been using lat/lon coords for my location but I have the range set at 30 miles, I will try the range at 0....thank you for the post

 

[UPMan]

If set at 30 miles, it will try to scan sites up to 40 or 50 miles away (depending on the sites' range settings).

 

[u2brent]

Thank you for the info Jon, if I turn off location control as mtindor suggested it scans all sites, is there something I am missing so this wont happen other than deleting those sites from my FL?

You can "AVOID" the sites that you don't want the scanner to monitor, Just like a TG.

 

[nc0347]

SDS100 Under Performance

I live in San Diego and I’m having major issues with reception on my SDS100. Running it side-by-side with my 436, the SDS100 misses multiple trunked transmissions, even when I have it locked on a single simulcast site, and stopped on a particular talkgroup. The 436 will have the transmission and the ‘100 will be silent.

 

[Maddogz4]

Update - I appreciate everyones suggestions. I did check into some of the settings that mtindor suggested but all looks ok. My service types did match what my 436 had on for that FL. I tried to set location to 0 miles but being I was listening to Wayne County Detroit dispatch which is not in immediate area it put the sites out of range (nothing to scan) so I set it to 10 miles. Again keep in mind my 436 has been picking up several TG's from different precinct's all this time. I still was not hearing anything no matter what I tried. Here is the thing I had tried firmware updates for the 1.05a and 1.05b versions with no luck. The last thing I did was went back to the 1.05a to try but still no luck. Well I just decided to retry the 1.05b firmware again and for some reason I am now picking up Detroit dispatch for the first time and it is picking up what the 436 hears now so thats great. I only had less than a hour to listen but had it on this morning and it is still picking up the TG's/sites now. The only thing I really did different was set location to 10 miles instead of 30 but with firmware 1.05a I did not get any activity so thinking going back to firmware 1.05b helped. I will be in northern lower Michigan this weekend where I can test Iosco county which I was also having some issues with certain TG's.

 

[jonwienke]

If the problem is only with certain talkgroups broadcast from a site, then you can rule out reception problems. Either encryption is being used, or else there is an error in your programming or settings.

 

[Maddogz4]

If the problem is only with certain talkgroups broadcast from a site, then you can rule out reception problems. Either encryption is being used, or else there is an error in your programming or settings.

I see what you are saying, if I can get transmissions of the site but certain TG's I am not picking up than its not a reception issue its a setting issue. I will have to check when I am in Iosco county to see if I am getting any hits (such as fire TG) on that site but not police dispatch. If that is the case and nothing is avoided what would you recommend I try? Its not encrypted because I do hear the transmissions from police dispatch on my 436. Thank you, the more I learn the better!

 

[mtindor]

I see what you are saying, if I can get transmissions of the site but certain TG's I am not picking up than its not a reception issue its a setting issue. I will have to check when I am in Iosco county to see if I am getting any hits (such as fire TG) on that site but not police dispatch. If that is the case and nothing is avoided what would you recommend I try? Its not encrypted because I do hear the transmissions from police dispatch on my 436. Thank you, the more I learn the better!

I think that at least until you figure out if you can hear all that you think you should hear, you should avoid using location based scanning -- despite Upman's encouragement for you to do so. If you disabled location-based scanning and then enabled all of the sites you want to listen to as well as departments, you should hear everything that isn't encrypted. Of course, you also might want to have ID Search on during that process as well.

To me it only seems logical to try to get things working without using location based scanning first, and then once you've mastered that start working with location based scanning.

If there are departments / talkgroups in the database with wrong geodata set for them, it could account for you not receiving them even if you have set a range that should allow you to receive them.

Mike

 

[TailGator911]

Excellent advice from some of the top experts on this forum. And it only reinforces my opinion that most of the complaints voiced about this scanner's abilities are impulsive and frustrated from folks who unknowingly have their settings off or on in some regard and immediately blame the scanner. This electronic device has been engineered to decipher and decode some of the most complex and difficult radio communications systems in existence, that have been purposely designed and engineered to discourage unwanted listeners. I feel that the SDS100 is the first scanner radio to be able to correctly monitor these systems, but it has to be tweaked to perfection in order to receive these frequencies and follow the Sites, Systems, Departments, Channels and Talk Groups down to what you want to hear.


Can't go wrong with advice from troymail, upman, and jonwienke. Follow their instructions to the 'T' and your scanner will come alive. They should be in a paid digital scanning think tank. lol

JD
kf4anc