SMUD P25 System

[mcjones2013]

I submitted the following to the database tonight. So far, there's no active talkgroups on the system (they're using their analog 900 MHz trunking system still).

I obtained the data using DSDPlus and Unitrunker.

I can't get a signal on Site 002, only peer information from the other two sites to confirm the Site 002 frequency.

Any help on that Site 002 for the rest of the control channel frequencies would be great. If I can find it myself in the next few days away from my home setup I'll submit and post here.

DATABASE SUBMISSION:

Sacramento Municipal Utility District P25

Type: APCO P25
ID: BEE00-94C
Sysid: 94C
WACN: BEE00

USING DSDPLUS AND UNITRUNKER:

SYSTEM IS USING 6.25 STEP VALUES DESPITE 12.5 STEP LISTED ON LICENSE

001-001 [NAC 941] SIMULCAST? (HQ, Carpenter Peak, EG Substation licenses)
856.88125 WQXT379
857.05625 WQXZ383
858.88125 WQXT379
859.88125 WQXT379

001-002 [NAC 942] ELVERTA? OR BIRDS LANDING? (Solano/Elverta licenses)
854.75625 WQYC710

001-003 [NAC 943] RANCHO SECO? ELVERTA? (Elverta/Herald licenses)
855.63125 WQYC710
856.35625 WQYC710
857.88125 WQYC710
858.33125 WQYC710

 

[mcjones2013]

Hilariously, they seem to be doing some range testing or similar by broadcasting an audiobook reading on TG2 at the moment. Thursday, Novwmber 9 at 7:40 PM.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[ccsochp11]

Hey McJones2013 sorry to beat you to the punch on the talk groups already being posted. lol, I know you were working on that, but i heard from someone that Smuds p25 talk groups didnt change from the old system so yeah there verified to be the same.

 

[mcjones2013]

Hey McJones2013 sorry to beat you to the punch on the talk groups already being posted. lol, I know you were working on that, but i heard from someone that Smuds p25 talk groups didnt change from the old system so yeah there verified to be the same.

No problem. I haven't been monitoring this system for the past few weeks.

My only question though, shouldn't the HEX values be different from the MOT system and the P25 system. I could be wrong on this.

 

[ccsochp11]

No they transfer right over from what I've been told.

 

[kma371]

Hey McJones2013 sorry to beat you to the punch on the talk groups already being posted. lol, I know you were working on that, but i heard from someone that Smuds p25 talk groups didnt change from the old system so yeah there verified to be the same.

Yeah, "heard from someone" isn't enough. I thought the submitter actually CONFIRMED the talkgroups. I'll remove them until we can get some kind of clarification.

 

[mikewazowski]

Gents, enough. If you want to pointlessly argue with each other, please take it to PM's.

Thanks.

 

[Markinsac]

I've started monitoring this system to find talkgroups. Some of the frequencies identified earlier are showing up on my list. None of them are associated with the licenses on file with the FCC. I ran some searches, and it appears that 859.88125 isn't associated with any licensee. Ran a couple of other frequencies with the same results.

I've submitted one or two talkgroups for the database.

 

[mcjones2013]

I've started monitoring this system to find talkgroups. Some of the frequencies identified earlier are showing up on my list. None of them are associated with the licenses on file with the FCC. I ran some searches, and it appears that 859.88125 isn't associated with any licensee. Ran a couple of other frequencies with the same results.

I've submitted one or two talkgroups for the database.

For the licenses, search the 12.5 step frequency next to it. They're licensed for 12.5 step frequencies but are using 6.25 step frequencies.

I've been monitoring as well and have identified (but not submitted yet) these two talkgroups:

7 - Service 1
49 - Security Operations 1


Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Markinsac]

Those two groups look good. I identified another one (19). As with the old system, appears they have separate groups for Building and Site Security.

I might contact SMUD (found some documentation in their licenses with some names) and make an inquiry about it.

 

[mcjones2013]

Their "Building" security and "Site" security are one-in-the-same. All the security officers are mobile, driving from site-to-site (or building-to-building) in the SMUD SUVs (with a police shield on the side).

They have a Security Operations 1 channel and a Security Operations 2 channel, with Channel 1 being dispatch, Channel 2 being talkaround/tac.

For reference, Channel 1 being the old Building Security channel on the old system, Channel 2 being the Site Security channel on the old system.

The remote "Site Security", like Rancho Seco or the hydroelectric dams, is contracted out to G4S or Securitas, and they don't talk on the system, but do have emergency radios just in case, I believe.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Markinsac]

From my listening, TG 49 was buildings, TG 19 was substations and other areas.

 

[mcjones2013]

Interesting, I haven't heard TG 19 much to listen, so you could very well be correct. Whatever the case, definitely submit your findings!

TG 7 locks up on me alot, so I may be missing TG 19.

Are you noticing a specific time of day by chance that TG 49 and TG 19 are active more?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Markinsac]

I've heard traffic on those in the late evening and evening. I've heard traffic about locking up areas as well as alarms. On the other, I've heard units checking in and out of substations. I've already submitted two of the TGs for the database - just awaiting them to get to it in the queue.

I was using a HomePatrol 1 (with the extreme upgrade) to monitor activity on the P25 system. Along with the frequencies, I was getting some anomalous LCNs and frequencies. Frequencies noted outside of the normal were 762.0125, 762.0375, and 765.2000. Some of the LCNs were 5 digits. I also got an LCN 0 (851.00625). Is it a possibility that a bandplan might have to be input for this system?

I noted that you used UniTrunker and DSDPlus earlier. I'm interested in learning to use them - if there is enough interest, maybe a group might meet some time for a tutorial?

 

[mcjones2013]

Would anyone be able to explain why SMUD is allowed to operate their P25 frequencies at 6.25 steps instead of their 12.5 assigned spots? For example, the Site 1 primary control channel is licensed for 859.88750 (WQXT379), but the actual transmitting center-point is 859.88125. 859.88125 is transmitting at around 11.0 bandwidth, so it's technically taking up the 859.87500 and 859.88750 12.5 step frequency spots.

I'm more curious than anything. Wondering if this is just generally allowed or if there might have been a mistake somewhere in the system implementation.

 

[gmclam]

Have you looked at the emission identifier for the SMUD frequencies. I think they include the channel width. It would indicate part of the license if the identifier shows 6.25kHz

 

[ccsochp11]

901-909 are supervisors, 915 and 916 are the two lobbies that are staffed during the day, 920 is east campus, 922 is main campus, and 921, 923, and 924 are patrol units. Control 1 is the main dispatch at the east campus and control 2 is the backup control center at the main campus. Sam David units are special details. Security Tac is the main dispatch channel even though security one should be the main dispatch channel. Patrol and standing officers at the two campuses are using the security tac channel as dispatch. Security channel 1 and 2 may become the main dispatch channel when the department switches from security to police officers. It's in the works as we speak. But for now security tac is dispatch. But most of the time security just uses there cad for calls and stuff like that. So it's very boring to listen to if you happen to listen at all.