Snowbird MotoTRBO
- Thread starter brandon
- Start date
- Status
Well... I have tried pretty much everything to get DSD to decode but it's a no go.
For those interested and more experienced with DSD than myself, here is the output log for activity on 452.400MHz
Here is .WAV file of the garbled audio: Snowbird_Mototrbo.wav
Maybe something is wrong with my setup? Strange thing it worked on another MOTOTRBO system back in California, so who knows? My only other guess is that they are encrypted.
For those interested and more experienced with DSD than myself, here is the output log for activity on 452.400MHz
Code:
brandon@ubuntu:~$ dsd -fr
Digital Speech Decoder 1.4.1
mbelib version 1.2.3
Decoding only DMR/MOTOTRBO frames.
Audio In/Out Device: /dev/audio
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 42% slot0 [slot1] Unknown burst type: 1101
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 42% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 42% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 42% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 42% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [slot0] slot1 PI Header
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 PI Header
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [slot0] slot1 PI Header
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 44% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EE=
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:=E=E==
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EEEEE
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:=EEEEEE
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 37% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:=TT
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:===E===
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 42% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [slot0] slot1 PI Header
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 VOICE Header
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 42% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 PI Header
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:==
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:====
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:==
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EE
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 36% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EEE=E=====
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 37% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EEEE
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 39% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 PI Header
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [slot0] slot1 PI Header
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 PI Header
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EEEEE
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EEEEEE
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EETEE
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EEE
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:EETE
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 37% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 36% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:===
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:==
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:==
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 38% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:=
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:TT
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 39% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:===E
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [SLOT0] slot1 VOICE e:=====EE==
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 37% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 41% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 40% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [slot0] slot1 TLC
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 41% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 38% [slot0] slot1 CSBK
Sync: +DMR mod: GFSK inlvl: 40% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 42% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 42% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 44% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 44% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 44% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% [slot0] slot1 Slot idle
Sync: +DMR mod: C4FM inlvl: 43% slot0 [slot1] Slot idle
Sync: no syncMaybe something is wrong with my setup? Strange thing it worked on another MOTOTRBO system back in California, so who knows? My only other guess is that they are encrypted.
Last edited:
bchris
Member
Brandon,
Please dont think we are ignoring you. Speaking for myself and perhaps most others, we just dont know the answer. I have no chance of receiving this system from my county. I would guess that most of our guys in the Salt Lake Valley cant get it either, but I'm not sure. You appear to be from Southern Cal, but you must spend some time in the Snowbird area, or do you monitor from the valley?
Based on the info in your posts, it also appears that you have some advanced knowledge of scanning. What we need is someone within range of that system that has similar knowledge, motivation, and equipment as you. That might be a hard combination to find.
What scanner and software are you using? Perhaps a different scanner/software combination might give us different clues. I hope someone can step up and help you out, but I'm afraid that probably wont be me.
If you have any other questions regarding other Utah systems, Please dont hesitate to ask. Sorry I could not be more help. We do appreciate any information that you do provide to the Utah database.
B.Christensen
.
Please dont think we are ignoring you. Speaking for myself and perhaps most others, we just dont know the answer. I have no chance of receiving this system from my county. I would guess that most of our guys in the Salt Lake Valley cant get it either, but I'm not sure. You appear to be from Southern Cal, but you must spend some time in the Snowbird area, or do you monitor from the valley?
Based on the info in your posts, it also appears that you have some advanced knowledge of scanning. What we need is someone within range of that system that has similar knowledge, motivation, and equipment as you. That might be a hard combination to find.
What scanner and software are you using? Perhaps a different scanner/software combination might give us different clues. I hope someone can step up and help you out, but I'm afraid that probably wont be me.
If you have any other questions regarding other Utah systems, Please dont hesitate to ask. Sorry I could not be more help. We do appreciate any information that you do provide to the Utah database.
B.Christensen
.
I'm pretty sure its Mototrbo with security aka encryption.
I was reading some other posts here in RR and it sounds like encryption is definitely enabled on the Snowbird system. For the hell of it I just tried my setup on our local MotoTRBO here in California, and it still decodes just fine. (See audio sample of clear MotoTRBO). Encryption certainly explains why I had no success at Snowbird.
batrastard
Member
mototurbo
I work for a private prison in colorado and we use the mototrbo radios (xpr6550). These radios use a new digital technology that. No scanner can pick up. For more info reference the wiki page on radio reference.
I work for a private prison in colorado and we use the mototrbo radios (xpr6550). These radios use a new digital technology that. No scanner can pick up. For more info reference the wiki page on radio reference.
batrastard
Member
Also mototrbo can be used in analog or digital mode.
kaf2088
Member
Snowbird !!!
The snowbird system does use encryption. The system was sold by and maintained by UCS wireless in Sandy, Utah !!!
The snowbird system does use encryption. The system was sold by and maintained by UCS wireless in Sandy, Utah !!!
Motorla TRBO can be used in an analog or a digital setting. If they are operating in analog you can monitor the traffic being passed. If they are operating in the digital format which is an TDMA protocol there is not a known scanner that can monitor it. Not really encrypted per say, they don't load keys or anything, its just a protocol that you can't listen to mostly because TDMA is an old Cell Phone Technology.
JRayfield
Member
In encrypted mode, it is truly encrypted, using a 40 bit key that is programmed into the radio through the CPS (programming) software. Once programmed, the key can not be read back out with the CPS, assuring that no one can read a radio and get the key.
And the fact that there are no scanners that can pick MOTOTRBO up has nothing to do with it being "an old Cell Phone Technology". TDMA is a very current technology. That's what P25 Phase 2 will also use, and TETRA also uses TDMA.
MOTOTRBO, which is based on DMR (Digital Mobile Radio, which is an open standard) is very new - it was only introduced about 3 to 4 years ago. So the fact that scanner manufacturers haven't included it in their units is because MOTOTRBO and the DMR standard are so new.
John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma
www.rayfield.net
And the fact that there are no scanners that can pick MOTOTRBO up has nothing to do with it being "an old Cell Phone Technology". TDMA is a very current technology. That's what P25 Phase 2 will also use, and TETRA also uses TDMA.
MOTOTRBO, which is based on DMR (Digital Mobile Radio, which is an open standard) is very new - it was only introduced about 3 to 4 years ago. So the fact that scanner manufacturers haven't included it in their units is because MOTOTRBO and the DMR standard are so new.
John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma
www.rayfield.net
Last edited:
KB1UAM
Member
i am totally and utterly confused. so the analog version of mototrbo can be decoded by scanners. and the digital cannot? or is mototrbo in general CANNOT be monitored by ANY scanner :???
JRayfield
Member
MOTOTRBO radios can operate in either an analog FM mode (just like any other FM two-way radio) or a digital mode that is based on the DMR (Digital Mobile Radio) standard.
In analog mode, the MOTOTRBO radio can be monitored just like any other FM two-way radio. There is no encryption available for it in analog mode (not even from 3rd party manufacturers, at this time).
In the digital mode, it can not be monitored with any scanner. That's because the DMR standard is too new, and thus not used enough yet for scanner manufacturers to include this mode in their scanners. I suspect that eventually it will be included in scanners, since the DMR standard is quickly becoming a very common digital standard for two-way radios systems (business and public safety) all over the world. There are several other manufacturers that are currently, or getting ready, to deliver DMR-compatible (thus, MOTOTRBO-compatible) radios, based on this DMR standard.
The Motorola MOTOTRBO radios also include digital encryption, based on a 40 bit programmable "key". If using this encryption, the MOTOTRBO radios would not be able to be monitored even if a scanner was available that could monitor the 'clear' DMR mode.
Does that help a bit?
John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma
In analog mode, the MOTOTRBO radio can be monitored just like any other FM two-way radio. There is no encryption available for it in analog mode (not even from 3rd party manufacturers, at this time).
In the digital mode, it can not be monitored with any scanner. That's because the DMR standard is too new, and thus not used enough yet for scanner manufacturers to include this mode in their scanners. I suspect that eventually it will be included in scanners, since the DMR standard is quickly becoming a very common digital standard for two-way radios systems (business and public safety) all over the world. There are several other manufacturers that are currently, or getting ready, to deliver DMR-compatible (thus, MOTOTRBO-compatible) radios, based on this DMR standard.
The Motorola MOTOTRBO radios also include digital encryption, based on a 40 bit programmable "key". If using this encryption, the MOTOTRBO radios would not be able to be monitored even if a scanner was available that could monitor the 'clear' DMR mode.
Does that help a bit?
John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma
powderchaser
Member
Snowbird
It sounds to me like if someone out there had the right equipment to decode the system one could purchase a TBO radio and have it programmed or will it require the owner of the site to allow it to recieve? I still must think there is a solution to this one but realize that encryption is a real brick wall. Please keep the thread going if any more intelligence comes in on Snowbird. Thanks
It sounds to me like if someone out there had the right equipment to decode the system one could purchase a TBO radio and have it programmed or will it require the owner of the site to allow it to recieve? I still must think there is a solution to this one but realize that encryption is a real brick wall. Please keep the thread going if any more intelligence comes in on Snowbird. Thanks
Raccon
Member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2005
- Messages
- 408
TDMA is not a technology, it's a channel access method. Even we limit ourselves to wireless TDMA it has been around for 20 years or so (think D-AMPS and GSM), so it's hardly 'very current', and neither is TDMA itself the reason why you can't scan those networks.
KB1UAM
Member
thanks mr rayfield. i understand a little more now! i really appreciate it.
JRayfield
Member
Yes, TDMA has been around for quite a while, but it's still a 'very current technology', as it's being used in current products/systems and future products/systems. But you are correct, it was originally developed quite a few years ago. The same can be said of spread spectrum - it was actually developed many years ago, but is still a 'current technology'.
The point that I was trying to make (and probably didn't do so good) is that DMR is so new that this is the reason why scanner manufacturers haven't included it yet. They need to see that it 'takes off' before they'll invest in developing products for it. I hope they do.
Sure TDMA is a 'technology'. Check the dictionary...
Technology:
1. the branch of knowledge that deals with the creation and use of technical means and their interrelation with life, society, and the environment, drawing upon such subjects as industrial arts, engineering, applied science, and pure science.
2. the terminology of an art, science, etc.; technical nomenclature.
3. a technological process, invention, method, or the like.
4. the sum of the ways in which social groups provide
John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma
The point that I was trying to make (and probably didn't do so good) is that DMR is so new that this is the reason why scanner manufacturers haven't included it yet. They need to see that it 'takes off' before they'll invest in developing products for it. I hope they do.
Sure TDMA is a 'technology'. Check the dictionary...
Technology:
1. the branch of knowledge that deals with the creation and use of technical means and their interrelation with life, society, and the environment, drawing upon such subjects as industrial arts, engineering, applied science, and pure science.
2. the terminology of an art, science, etc.; technical nomenclature.
3. a technological process, invention, method, or the like.
4. the sum of the ways in which social groups provide
John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma
Raccon
Member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2005
- Messages
- 408
Current yes, but you said 'very current', implying it's new. After 20 years I don't think it counts as new anymore.
Might be, but as stated the reason is not TDMA.
TDMA is a technique, a collection of techniques makes a technology.
E.g. by using TDMA as a technique you can create a technology like a wired de-/multiplexer system or a wireless standard such as D-AMPS, GSM etc.
Ezra
Member
I was up there last week with my BCD436HP with the DMR upgrage (MOTOTrbo) and I was hearing conversations in the clear from the lodge, ski partrol, tram, maint, etc.
The quality wasn't that good and I'm wondering if the new BCD436 DMR upgrade was the problem.
I never had time to make sense of the system but it's definitely not analog but I don't think its's encrypted
The quality wasn't that good and I'm wondering if the new BCD436 DMR upgrade was the problem.
I never had time to make sense of the system but it's definitely not analog but I don't think its's encrypted
This is extremely exciting - and confirms that it isn't encrypted, just need a DMR capable radio.
Can you send me more details on your setup? I would be interested in duplicating your results next time I am there.
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