So it is said ......

[fireman_dude]

So it is said by a reliable source that all Ocean County Stations that were once on the low band system will be on the trunk system before the year is up. That will include Seaside Park and all of Manchester (if they are not all on it already) and now get ready for this.... Apparently Jackson Township will be making the switch over to the County Trunking System and doing away with their current UHF system. This has prompted the county to look into expanding the system with a few new trunking frequencies and talk groups. I do not know the time frame on the new channels. but like I said, this came from a reliable source. If anyone has any further on this, feel free to put your 2 cents worth in.

 

[elias1988]

You forgot Seaside Heights and Lakehurst,heres what i can tell you; a resolution from town council will come in the coming weeks for Seaside Heights to make the switch,all Manchester Township FDs are on the trunked system.

 

[fineshot1]

This has prompted the county to look into expanding the system with a few new trunking frequencies and talk groups. I do not know the time frame on the new channels. but like I said, this came from a reliable source. If anyone has any further on this, feel free to put your 2 cents worth in.

Who is your source? I dont think this part is accurate. I spoke to the folks at the county today who would be making these decisions and they dont know anything about any expansions to the TR System in relation to what you are talking about.....

 

[kb2vxa]

Hi Dude and all,

So far I have heard Manchester and Jackson units talking to the county dispatcher from time to time but they're not using the system as primary. The county system is pretty big but there's a limit to everything, if everybody in the county used it instead of their own it would be overloaded and useless. Frankly I see it as interop since construction of the statewide system was stalled by McGreedy's legacy of financial chaos.

On the other hand it doesn't make financial sense in light of the fact that the municipalities have in recent years completely revamped their systems. Dumping them at this point would be a huge amount of money wasted. Uh uh, the City Council and the County Board of Chosen Freeloaders would be facing an election nightmare after such a foolish move.

This is a rumor that has been going around for years and surfaces from time to time. They always forget until the next time, but VXA remembers. (Never mind the bread commercial.)

 

[fireman_dude]

Who is your source? I dont think this part is accurate. I spoke to the folks at the county today who would be making these decisions and they dont know anything about any expansions to the TR System in relation to what you are talking about.....

This information was brought up at the Southern Ocean Chiefs meeting held this past October. There were rep's from the County radio room on hand. The information was relayed back to me from one of the Chiefs. I doubt if my source would be making this up.

 

[fineshot1]

This information was brought up at the Southern Ocean Chiefs meeting held this past October. There were rep's from the County radio room on hand. The information was relayed back to me from one of the Chiefs. I doubt if my source would be making this up.

I dont think your source made it up, just something got lost in the translation or was misunderstood regarding the oc trunk system discussion. No chan or TG expansion is necessary to accomodate the arrival of Jackson Twp FD's or Manchester FD's onto the system. The system is robust enough to handle them under normal conditions. In addition there are also plenty of uhf conventional rptr chans and direct fireground chans which often get overlooked and under utilized.

 

[DJ88]

I would have to agree with fineshot1 in regards to the available channels and channels that are rarely used. Not only do the departments have access to the 5 Zone Talk Groups, but also 5 conventional fire repeaters, 2 simplex fire ground channels, and 3 Tac Talk Groups. That's 15 available channels. Although County can't monitor the simplex FG channels, they can be used to free up a TG or conventional channel should it be necessary, which is done now from time to time. Also thrown into the mix is the fact that the Zone 3 Talk Group is always available as there are no FDs on the trunk system that are assigned to it.

One thing I have noticed, and it came to my attention last night during a major structure fire in Lavallette. It appears that there is no single channel on which all departments, both County and self dispatched, can communicate on during a major incident, such as the one last night. Stations 27 (Ocean Beach), 28 (East Dover), 35 (Mantoloking), 44 (Seaside Heights), and 69 (Lavallette) were all operating at the scene. 27 and 28 were using Dover Twp. Fire 1 and 2, 35 was using the Lakewood Conventional Repeater, 44 was using the Dover Twp. frequency as well as their Zone 2 low band fire ground frequency, 69 was on the Fire Zone 1 TG, and the Fire Coordinator was using his TG. Low Band Zone 4 was also used. Being that Lavallette was command and on the trunk system, coordination was difficult for their chief, the actual Fire Coordinator, and county dispatch.

After the fire was extinguished, I heard the county dispatcher and the Fire Coordinator discussing this, and the dispatcher was reeling off all of the channels that were used and said that communications and coordination would have been a lot easier if there had been one channel on which everyone could commuicate. That might be something for the powers that be at county to consider. Just my nickles worth.

 

[fineshot1]

I would have to agree with fineshot1 in regards to the available channels and channels that are rarely used. Not only do the departments have access to the 5 Zone Talk Groups, but also 5 conventional fire repeaters, 2 simplex fire ground channels, and 3 Tac Talk Groups. That's 15 available channels. Although County can't monitor the simplex FG channels, they can be used to free up a TG or conventional channel should it be necessary, which is done now from time to time. Also thrown into the mix is the fact that the Zone 3 Talk Group is always available as there are no FDs on the trunk system that are assigned to it.

One thing I have noticed, and it came to my attention last night during a major structure fire in Lavallette. It appears that there is no single channel on which all departments, both County and self dispatched, can communicate on during a major incident, such as the one last night. Stations 27 (Ocean Beach), 28 (East Dover), 35 (Mantoloking), 44 (Seaside Heights), and 69 (Lavallette) were all operating at the scene. 27 and 28 were using Dover Twp. Fire 1 and 2, 35 was using the Lakewood Conventional Repeater, 44 was using the Dover Twp. frequency as well as their Zone 2 low band fire ground frequency, 69 was on the Fire Zone 1 TG, and the Fire Coordinator was using his TG. Low Band Zone 4 was also used. Being that Lavallette was command and on the trunk system, coordination was difficult for their chief, the actual Fire Coordinator, and county dispatch.

After the fire was extinguished, I heard the county dispatcher and the Fire Coordinator discussing this, and the dispatcher was reeling off all of the channels that were used and said that communications and coordination would have been a lot easier if there had been one channel on which everyone could commuicate. That might be something for the powers that be at county to consider. Just my nickles worth.

All of the FD portables/mobiles that are programmed on the OC Trunk System have 2 common talk groups - "PS Common" and the "Disaster" talk groups. There is no reason one of them could not have been selected for this "common channel" purpose if it was needed. Why that did not happen is another story which I cant comment on. They also all have FireGnd 1 & 2 for the incident on scene needs. The resources are in the radios but if not chosen to be used well - again thats another story....

 

[Joseph11]

Don't most, if not all, fire units in the county have VHF radios with the South Jersey Fire-Net in them? I know all of the Toms River Township area fire departments do.

 

[elias1988]

After the fire was extinguished, I heard the county dispatcher and the Fire Coordinator discussing this, and the dispatcher was reeling off all of the channels that were used and said that communications and coordination would have been a lot easier if there had been one channel on which everyone could commuicate.

True,i was operating at the scene with station 44 and i thought there was alot of confusion as to who was in command of the scene.i heard seaside heights' dispatcher tell 4410 that county told him to use zone 1 trunking but no 44 units have UHF radios yet.

 

[DJ88]

I think the problem here is that only one department, Lavallette, has both trunk and UHF conventional capabilities. Mantoloking has UHF capabilities on the Lakewood Repeater, as does Lavallette, so they can communicate with each other.

Ocean Beach, East Dover and Seaside Heights don't have UHF radios, and apparently Lavallette and Mantoloking don't have VHF radios, so their combined comms with each other are nil. Seaside Heights has the Dover Fire frequency(s) in their radios, so they can communicate with each other, but that leaves out Lavallette and Mantoloking.

This brings me back to my original point; no common frequency, either VHF or UHF, that would allow all departments and dispatch centers, both local and county, to communicate with each other. The South Jersey Fire Net frequency might have worked if, and I stress IF, everyone has capabilities on it. If they do, why it wasn't or isn't used is a good question. The only thing I've ever heard it used for is MedEvac LZ coordination.

If I'm off base with anything I've said here, please correct me.

 

[Joseph11]

There are common frequencies on each band for the FD's to use. On UHF, they can use the Toms River Tower Conventional Fire Repeater, UHF-1, or Fireground-1/2. On VHF, they can use the South Jersey Fire-Net, SPEN 4, or any of Toms River's channels. I think the problem is that most firefighters don't know what channels to use for interoperability.

 

[DJ88]

I'm aware of the fact that there are common frequencies on each band for the departments to use, but they're only of use if the departments all have either VHF and/or UHF radios, or capablilities on both bands. Maybe they do and noone knew enough or thought to coordinate all of the departments at the scene onto one channel. I've not seen all of the department's radios, and without doing that, it would be impossible to verify how they're programmed.

 

[elk2370bruce]

Lack of understanding as to who is the Incident Commander and not knowing which radio resources are available for which use sounds like an ICS 300 refresher is needed. Hopefully, both of the above stated posts are inaccurate.

 

[PJH]

Looking at the system profile in the database here, I'd say it wouldn't be a bad idea to add a few more channels onto the system.

If fire departments are properly discplined in radio use, there would be almost no need to what was described above. That's just training out the window.

Talkgroup capacity isn't the problem, its the amount of actual channel loading when the ****e hits the fan. Busy system bonks are never fun.

As for everyone going on the system...despite previous upgrades to other systems, is the better way to go.

All personal opions aside from above... Grant money, homeland security BS, and just general common sense makes this a very viable option. Remember, a lot of things changed in the world and in funding that negates what towns have funded into their system.

And, in addtion to all that, quanity discounts, similar/same equipment pools and repairs achive a lower operating cost for everyone involved.

 

[Tech792]

You'd be suprised how many fire officers don't know what I-300 is.

 

[elk2370bruce]

You'd be suprised how many fire officers don't know what I-300 is.

That's sad! ICS began with the fire service and has done a lot for effective and efficient response activities - especially for mutual aid and for inter-departmental actions. According to former Governor Codey's Executive Order 50, ICS is a requirement for all of us with 300 essential for command-level operations.

 

[hulka]

Another thing to take into consideration is that you MUST have permission to talk on another agencies radio frequency. You can't just start talking on it because someone programmed the transmit side in the radio without getting their permission. Yes it would make life a lot easier but at the same time you will be getting, "What are they doing on my channel!"

Also you are going to have problems until they come up with a conventional UHF interagency frequency that ALL Agencies can use. Dover Twp. Aka, Toms River Twp. is on VHF, Brick Twp., Point Pleasant Boro and Beach, Lakewood Twp., Mantoloking all use their own UHF systems. If you get a multi-county fire going, ie. Southern House Fire Jan of 03, in Point Beach, you had the Point Pleasant Companies, Mantoloking, Glendola and a few others from Monmouth County. I think that there were a few more but can not recall off the top on my head you did not have a common channel. Everyone used their own. Same goes for a Forest Fire. The “Jakes Branch Fire” in Beachwood you had Ocean County, Monmouth County and Burlington County there, yet not a common channel.

My opinion there needs to be some UHF frequencies set aside for another set of (UHF) SPEN channels. This way there is a COMMON channel to use through out the state no matter where you go. Like I said that is my opinion though, I am sure others will agree or disagree. You will never get everyone on the frequency in the county.

 

[hulka]

Here is a picture that I took during that fire.

 

[Joseph11]

My opinion there needs to be some UHF frequencies set aside for another set of (UHF) SPEN channels. This way there is a COMMON channel to use through out the state no matter where you go. Like I said that is my opinion though, I am sure others will agree or disagree. You will never get everyone on the frequency in the county.

What about UTAC? It's a nationwide set of UHF interoperability frequency that all public safety agencies are allowed to use.