Solution For Tech Challenged Trunking End-User

[KV4BL]

I am sure that I'll receive a few jeers and guffaws but there are a substantial number of people out there, to include myself, who CAN NOT program trunking scanners. I never had any problem programming any conventional scanner placed in front of me and did program many of these for friends and others who were less technically oriented than I was. I have cursed the scanner manufacturers for years for producing a product (trunking scanners) that only a handful of consumers have even a prayer of actually getting use from. For those of you who are computer literate enough to make them work, my hat is off to you, but the ones who can truly get the most of a trunking scanner are few and far between. Unless one is blessed to know one of you, they are SOL with regard to using these costly items. Gone for now, are the days when Joe Average Citizen or his wife could go into the local Radio Shack and buy a scanner and go home and with minimal effort, begin listening to local Public Safety services. With this in mind, I have an idea I'd like to put out there and hope one or more scanner manufacturers will latch on to and put into the market.
How about we take a step backward, to the bad old days BEFORE programmable scanners, when scanners and other monitors used crystals to control the channel to be received. There were drawbacks. You had to either find the crystal for the agency you wished to monitor at a local store (if you were lucky) or "order" the crystal by mail and wait for about six weeks for it to arrive. Every time you added a channel or a local agency changed frequencies, you had to go through this process. Bad as it was, it was INFINITELY BETTER than what we now have with trunked scanners and the programming issue, for most of us unenlightened souls. Cutting to the chase, how about developing trunking scanners that could hold, oh, say twenty or so programmable "chips". If I wanted to listen to Lexington, SC Public Safety, I could order one from the manufacturer and it would come with the tower and trunking data for stuff like Lexington Fire, EMS, Small towns Police, Cayce Public Safety conventional on 460MHz, etc. I would plug it into my radio and there it would be. The scanner would give you the option of locking out the various channels from scan or to stop on a given channel as you now have. An alpha tag would be included for each channel and would display on the screen as now happens with trunking scanners that are properly programmed. Since Lexington County Sheriff's Dept is encrypted, it would not include anything but their analog channels. I could buy another chip that would include state agencies and statewide Mutual-Aid channels (talk groups) as well as the ITAC channels and state "TAC" channels that use conventional technology. The scanner would have the ability to mix and mingle the various channels and talk groups from different chips on its keypad as well as activate or deactivate PL or DPL on various conventional channels. Chips should / could sell for no more than fifteen or twenty bucks and could be sent back to the factory for "updating" or reprogramming for a nominal fee. There would have to be a mechanism for allowing input from people in the field (perhaps in conjunction with RR?) to enhance accuracy and relevance of data in the chips. I see this as having the potential to be WIN-WIN for the consumers, who would finally be able to have "plug n play" monitoring of their local Public Safety again, and the manufacturers. For the manufacturers, it would create a degree of repeat business after the scanner is sold for chips. Customized chips could be ordered with user supplied data for a higher cost, say $40 or so. If the consumer moves or is going on vacation, they can order chips for the area they plan to move to or visit. Who knows, if RR was involved, perhaps they could receive proceeds from the manufacturers for their help that would help fund RR's services. With modern date storage and loading methods, I would think this concept to be very do-able. What do you think? For those gifted souls who programming is not an issue for, again, my hat is off to you, but please try and put yourself in the place of the average consumer. I have a friend who has bought or programmed quite a few of the Radio Shack digital trunking scanners in the past couple of years. He noted that EVERY ONE of the scanners he had seen was previously opened and placed back into the box. The indication is, a lot of people buy them from RS, thinking they can do something with the radios and find out otherwise. They then take them back for a refund and leave very unhappy.

 

[ctpd845]

With all the different programming software available for scanners these days is this really an issuse?

 

[KV4BL]

With All Of The Programming Software Is This An Issue?

I think it is. While you are probably one of the gifted souls I referred to at the beginning of my post and do not need something like this, I imagine that a lot of non-technical people would be in the market for something they could actually get use from. While I am a long time radio geek, I'm not very computer literate. To make matters worse, I have a Mac and almost no programming software for anything is compatible with it. Yes, there are supposedly "remedies" but I have not had the time or wherwithall to make use of them.
I think the number of obviously pre-opened boxes encountered, which likely indicate radios returned when the buyer couldn't get any use from them, is mute testimony to the desirability of something like this. Not everyone who wants to listen to local police is computer literate and not everyone who is computer literate knows how to program in the correct frequencies, talk group codes, and other data needed to monitor their local Public Safety.
The lists AND instructions that I have seen included with three different models of Radio Shack trunk tracking scanners were utter garbage. Thankfully I have a friend who had the software and the knowledge of the local trunking systems to program my radio properly. Because he is a radio and a computer geek in one package and is (literally) a genius, he had no problem making it work. His time is very limited and numerous people come to me wanting the blame things programmed. I have to turn them away because I CAN'T do it and am not going to volunteer his time for him as he barely had time to program my radio.

 

[grcjrsc]

Yes it is an issue. I have programmed a number of these radios for other, and why I understand how to do it with both the computer and manually from a the keypad, it's not intuitive to a large percentage of the population.

If you use something standard like and SD card would hold the programming data and can be bought for a geographical area, it would make this much easier for "joe average" that just wants to hear his local PD/FD dispatch and operation channels. This could help to bring the hobby back for a large number of people that have been "techied out"

With all the different programming software available for scanners these days is this really an issuse?

 

[ctpd845]

Well I consider myself pretty much a Joe Average and I have no problems using software to program my scanners. I also think there are still plenty of scanners on the market that do not require software to program because programming them is pretty straight forward if you read the instructions.

 

[SCPD]

Yes it is an issue. I have programmed a number of these radios for other, and why I understand how to do it with both the computer and manually from a the keypad, it's not intuitive to a large percentage of the population.

If you use something standard like and SD card would hold the programming data and can be bought for a geographical area, it would make this much easier for "joe average" that just wants to hear his local PD/FD dispatch and operation channels. This could help to bring the hobby back for a large number of people that have been "techied out"

TRY having patience??.. like any other hobby takes time & you get back what you invest in it

 

[kb2vxa]

"...programming them is pretty straight forward if you read the instructions."

Yeah, tell that to my big fat fingers. I'll stay with the software thank you, it's a lot easier than that mess with button button whose got the button.

"TRY having patience?"

Sorry OM doctors have patients, I have big fat fingers.

 

[iMONITOR]

The current crop of digital scanners come with preliminary programming already loaded. It might not be up to the standards of the more advanced scanner enthusiast, but it's definitely usable.

 

[trace1]

Well then, guess I must be one of the "lucky" ones. I've programmed my radios both manually and with computer aided software with no problems either way.

 

[57Bill]

Beside all the negative stereotypes that describe "radio geeks", I see a positive attribute here: humility. You guys who proclaim to be "average" and find no problem with programming anything are just so humble about it!

 

[Swipesy]

Perhaps KV4BL's frustration is mis-directed. How about blaming Motorola, etc. for the design of digital technology for radio systems which the scanner manufacturers had to adjust the scanner radio to be able to monitor? It is no longer a world of one frequency to monitor a system.

 

[KV4BL]

Solution For Tech Challenged Trunking End-Users

Thank you all for your responses. The one response that most seems to get where I am coming from is GRCJR. Thank You!!!!
The purpose of my idea is to help the numerous people (to include myself) out there who are not "techies" and who just want to listen to their local police, fire, EMS, etc without a lot of hassle, drama, and hoopla, ....just like you could do in the 70's and most of the 80's in most areas of the country. If learning all of the fine bits of information you need to set up your scanner and customize the programming and everything is what does it for you, fine! Have at it and enjoy your hobby as you now do! I get the feeling that most who post on RR are, of necessity, very much "techie" as you have to be to program one of these accursed trunk trackers. Enjoyment of monitoring local Public Safety and such did not start out as exclusively hi-techie and it should not end up that way. Picking on them in particular because there is one in most every neighborhood, Radio Shack does a great disservice to the monitoring consumer in the marketing of their trunk-trackers. No one of average or below technical skills will buy one of these things (at a dear price, too) and go home and read the directions and be listening satisfactorily to their local police, fire, and such before going to bed or before the next week is up, unless they know someone like one of you guys. If they don't, they are totally SOL! This is why a probable majority of these things are stuffed back in the box and taken back for refunds. What good is it if you can't use it? FWIW, I always scored high on reading comprehension in school and think I do a decent job of retaining that ability. Unless a lot has changed in the last couple of years, the instructions for programming the Radio Shack offerings are BUNK, as is the list of frequencies and other data included with them. This was confirmed by the friend who programmed mine for me. He, seemingly, can intuitively program them from keypad or with software. Also, the included, "pre-programming" while possibly useful in some of the targeted areas was useless in my area.
While there seem to be more of you gifted people who can make the current genre of trunk trackers work than I would have suspected, I still believe that there are far more people who are not so gifted who just want to listen to the stuff scanner listeners have enjoyed for many years before the trunking problem came on scene.
Rather than finding the correct place to direct my blame, such as Motorola, et al, I would like to see the scanner manufacturers take what they have been able to do thus far and make it better for the average, non-techie, end user. What is out there right now just doesn't work. Not all of us wanting to monitor Public Safety and the like have the time, inclination, equipment, or desire, to catch up on all of the numerous little ins and outs required to program a current generation trunk-tracker. I think this idea could serve as a place to start and build on to.

 

[brian]

Perhaps another solution or opportunity to this delima is for someone (RadioReference would be a good choice) to maintain a clearinghouse of contact information for other hobbiests who would volunteer to be local "experts" that offer programming service to other hobbiests.

For sure KV4BL is correct that the vast majority of scanner purchasers are not willing or able (for whatever reason, not being judgemental) to program these increasingly complex devices. I'd guess that for every 1 active RadioReference user there are at least 2 or 3 others who don't have interest in learning and understanding the technology, but instead just want to listen to local happenings. It's like saying that you shouldn't have to be an auto mechanic in order to drive a car.

I, as one of the "gifted few who are computer literate and understand most of radio technology," take great joy in helping others program their radios. It's my way to give back to a hobby that, by its nature, doesn't lend itself to opportunities for human interaction and socialization. And I do this for free - it's a good way to also perpetuate the hobby. The more of us out there, the more we can assure that radio manufacturers will continue to produce better and more capable devices, and perhaps our public servants will realize we're not all crazy ne'er-do-wells who want to rob the corner store. Others do this by offering their scanner configuration files up on forums like these, but that still is limited for the non-computer-literate crowd.

I see this list of contact information to include a list of areas that the person specializes in (local expertise), radio models supported (I don't program a lot of Uniden radios, for example), and preferred contact method (for me it's email). And not everyone will do this for free ,so maybe a rate list also.

I'll be the first to sign up.

 

[iMONITOR]

It surprises me KV4BL that you would feel as you do considering that you are a licensed amateur radio operator. Most of todays ham radio equipment is also very complex and sometimes requires programming. Usually people involved in ham radio look forward to the next technical challenge. The complexity of today's digital scanner radios is necessary. It's no longer just a receiver, it's a computerized receiver. It has to be programmable to allow it to be configured for the systems, and user's requirements.

I'll agree that they are complicated and have an intimidating learning curve if all you are used to is plugging in a handful of crystals. I think the solution for those who find they are too difficult to comprehend is to have a friend, or forum member program it for them. There are also scanner dealers that offer programming service for a fee. It would be a shame to see our scanner technology become limited in order to make them easier to use.

 

[CWR]

Well , I don't have a "computer" , I use MSN-TV for e-Mail and such. I never wanted to lern how to use a computer. That's why I didn't run right out and buy a GRE PSR-500 because the owners manual was on CD-ROM. Finally bought a Pro-106 , and a couple of hours in a quiet room by myself with the owners manual , I got it programmed with Alph Tags for 2 Trunked systems , a Digital Trunked system , and 3 conventional scan lists.
BUT , with each new scanner I buy , I wonder IF this one will be my last. I like to say : I didn't leave the hobby , the hobby left me.........."

 

[Swipesy]

Technolgoy is not going to stop going forward just because some people can not keep up or cope with the complication of it. Examples are automobile repair, television programming etc. etc. etc. Since the digital trunking scanner has entered the market place, several individuals have developed software that make the programming of these scanners quite simple. It is what it is. If one cannot cope with that then you have to find a friend or pay to have it programmed for you. Personally, I am not a programmer, or an electrical or radio engineer but I found the software that has been developed to program the digital scanners very easy to understand and use. For a $30.00 investment there is no issue with these scanners in my humble opinion.

 

[CWR]

Technolgoy is not going to stop going forward just because some people can not keep up or cope with the complication of it.

True , I'm still trying to learn how to use all the features on my Cell Phone.............

 

[raisindot]

I understand your frustration, but don't see your "chip based" solution as being anything that any manufacturer would want to do, given that:

1. The market would be extremely limited. Since the vast majority of people can either program their scanners manually or use software, there just wouldn't be enough profit in maknig specialized trunking chips for local areas

2. These chips would immediately become outdated if there were any changes in the trunking systems thety covered

There's simply no way to return to crystal scanners, and thank goodness! Between the great software put out there by Don Starr and others, the availability of Radioreference files that you can download to your computer to essentially remove the programming burden from you, and the fact that scanners like the GRE PSR 500 already have loads of trunking systems preinstalled, there's really no reason why any other kind of delivery system is commercially viable or needed.

People learn the technology they need. For example, you're a ham, so you certainly must have an excellent knowledge of electronics, radios, antennas, etc.--stuff that is WAY beyond my ability to comprehend, and I salute you for knowing this. How many people do you know who are afraid of computers but can easily program their cell phone or fax machine? Clearly, there is a learning curve for everything, and the newer scanners aren't exactly the easiest to program manually, but the software really does make programming very easy, once you give it a try. And, what's ever nicer, is that if you don't want to do it yourself, someone will probably offer to send you a file with all the trunking systems already programmed, do all you need to do it download it to your scanner and it's all set.

Suzie

 

[whacker]

I program my digital scanner mainly from the keypad, as I reside in a not-so-heavily-radio-trafficked area, and at the time I bought the unit, learning the software to program appeared to be more of a headache than simply using the keypad. I did learn both ways, but I'm starting to see this as a generational thing to a degree.

The radio also came preprogrammed, but as soon as I learned what I wanted to monitor was this or that slice, it took some time just to weed out the preprogrammed stuff and set the radio up correctly, with no fluff or excess, without wasting memory. Unfortunately the user's manual wasn't the greatest, but the learning curve was attacked, and this site also helped immensely. I do use software to backup my radio, and can completely see why you'd be all-in with the software if you lived and monitored a heavy traffic area with a broad range of services (and lots of frequencies).

But it's not the first thing I go to. If I get a new frequency in a search or wherever, I input it on the keypad from the comfort of my easy chair, and leave my computer off on the other side of the room. Could be a lifestyle thing as well. Understanding trunking radio concepts, understanding digital systems, and understanding how your particular radio brand wrangles all that together are key to putting it to good use for yourself to enjoy in the hobby.

Remember Bevis & Butthead: "I don't like numbers; there's too many of 'em. Huh-huh..." One way to look at the number of frequencies in trunking radio.