Somerset County TRS Question

[rbartolu]

Just updating scanner with new data from Radio Reference via API for the Somerset County TRS (both UHF and 700). Finding that through the import it's only bringing down 3 frequencies (1 control channel, 2 alternate channels). There are several other frequencies listed on the system page that are not coming across - should I be manually adding those or does it not matter? Seems like I'm not getting a ton of traffic, thinking it's related to the missing frequencies. Thoughts?

 

[AvidHiker]

Using Sentinel with the latest database, I've got 3 frequencies for the UHF and 3 for the 700 simulcast (the highlighted ones, control and alts). The database page shows additional frequencies (in black) which are licensed, but, presumably, not currently being used. I'm not missing any traffic, but my SDS100 is much more reliable on this system than my 436HP. Could you be having issues with simulcast distortion? What are you scanning with?

 

[rbartolu]

Using a GRE PSR-600, not sure so much that I'm missing transmissions but maybe it's more so just audio quality/distortion. I'll keep an eye on this for a few days and see now. Have both systems (500 and 700) setup in separate banks with same talkgroups so we'll see which performs better.

 

[AvidHiker]

From my location in Union County, I don't think I can even receive the UHF simulcast (definitely doesn't come through on the 436), so I just hold on the 700. But I have seen transmissions come through on UHF when mobile. Don't listen often enough to get any idea how traffic is distributed across the 2, but pretty sure I've read that not everything is simulcast across both. Anyway, your GRE may even have a harder time than my 436 with this system (depending on the usual variables, of course). Folks with older scanners more susceptible to simulcast distortion seem to sometimes have luck using directional antennas to pick out individual towers.

 

[APX8000]

The additional frequencies are in fact being used for voice traffic. However, you only need to program in the control channel (and alternate control channels if the CC should roll) in order to hear everything. In easy to understand terms, that’s how it’s designed.

 

[WA0CBW]

These sites are multi-cast not simulcast. Simulcast sites have exactly the same frequencies and talkgroups.
bb

 

[GTR8000]

These sites are multi-cast not simulcast. Simulcast sites have exactly the same frequencies and talkgroups.
bb

The Somerset County P25 system is comprised of two simulcast cells: one on UHF, the other on 700.

So while technically speaking the UHF and 700 cells may multi-cast the same talkgroup activity, for all intents and purposes this is absolutely a simulcast system.

 

[richee2000]

The North Area Towns seem to use the 700 channels, phase 2 .. (as well as Bridgewater and Hillsborough).. all others seem to use the UHF channels, Phase I ......Not sure what the actual official usage is

 

[WA0CBW]

Simulcast means transmitting from multiple sites (locations) on the same frequencies at the same time. Many people confuse the two. Many times people blame "simulcast" for receiving difficulties when the sites are really multi-cast. As in the example above above you can't have simulcast distortion when the two sites are on different bands.
bb

 

[GTR8000]

Simulcast means transmitting from multiple sites (locations) on the same frequencies at the same time. Many people confuse the two. Many times people blame "simulcast" for receiving difficulties when the sites are really multi-cast. As in the example above above you can't have simulcast distortion when the two sites are on different bands.
bb

I'm well aware of what simulcast means, and you're still wrong. Re-read my post, I was very clear. The system is comprised of two SIMULCAST CELLS, each comprised of multiple subsites.

 

[rr60]

I'm well aware of what simulcast means, and you're still wrong. Re-read my post, I was very clear. The system is comprised of two SIMULCAST CELLS, each comprised of multiple subsites.

Copy that GTR no question. The only way to get all traffic in clear is to monitor both systems as it depends on which system sub affiliates with. It is very variable and does change daily.

With that said today CC for 500 is 500.88750 and CC for 700 is 774.40625.

Traffic may at anytime appear on one, or the other, or both systems.

 

[GTR8000]

Copy that GTR no question. The only way to get all traffic in clear is to monitor both systems as it depends on which system sub affiliates with. It is very variable and does change daily.

With that said today CC for 500 is 500.88750 and CC for 700 is 774.40625.

Traffic may at anytime appear on one, or the other, or both systems.

Exactly. Systems like this can be pretty fluid, which is how they are intended to operate. Sure, they can restrict talkgroups/subscribers to one cell (band) or the other, however doing so may be counterproductive depending on how much flexibility they want to give everyone. Aside from concerns about channel resources, there's really no reason why a multi-band radio can't make it's own determination as to which cell has a better signal at any given time. That's the beauty of these multi-band P25 systems, ultimately it really doesn't matter which band a radio is operating on, it all goes through the same zone controller/core and therefore no fidelity is lost between sites/simulcast cells.

I'm not sure why the gentleman from Kansas felt it necessary to interject with misleading comments. Clearly each cell is a simulcast, it's plain as day if you take a look at the licenses. I can't imagine anyone thinking the entire county would be covered by a single (non-simulcast) RF site.

 

[APX8000]

I’ll use NJICS as an example...this is no different than Newark Fire talkgroup going over 700 on West Orange Simulcast and 800 on Union County Simulcast. Only difference here is one simulcast cell is UHF.

 

[WA0CBW]

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just saying you wouldn't have simulcast interference between the UHF and 700 sites but you could within each cell.
bb

 

[GTR8000]

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just saying you wouldn't have simulcast interference between the UHF and 700 sites but you could within each cell.
bb

Indeed, thanks for clearing up what you meant.

 

[AvidHiker]

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just saying you wouldn't have simulcast interference between the UHF and 700 sites but you could within each cell.
bb

I guess that makes sense, but (excuse my ignorance), I don't see the relevance to the OP (or even the relevance to anything - the fact that 2 separate sites don't interfere just seems to be a given, not sure how that matters anyway?).

I simply suggested that the OP's scanner may be struggling with this system because of the simulcasts (yes, I see now I misused the term in my second post). The last few comments are a little confusing for the layman, but I gather that's a distinct possibility.

 

[jon47378]

Somerset county has been very quiet for me for sometime now. At first I was picking up the new system, now rarely hearing anything at all. Franklin twp still coming in, as they are on their own system. I am using a uniden BCD325P2 and the mobile version of that radio. Any suggestions? I programmed it using the RR import. Thanks

 

[AvidHiker]

Somerset county has been very quiet for me for sometime now. At first I was picking up the new system, now rarely hearing anything at all. Franklin twp still coming in, as they are on their own system. I am using a uniden BCD325P2 and the mobile version of that radio. Any suggestions? I programmed it using the RR import. Thanks

Had traffic on my 436HP from most of the regions on the system this morning while driving 22 from Union into Somerset County. I suspect simulcast, along with a new source of interference, is likely your problem.

 

[edisonfire]

It's weird that using a Unication G5 I can hear Somerset County well into Essex and Hudson Counties, down in Mercer County. When I'm home {Branchburg/Readington border} I constantly drop out of the 500Mhz Fire side, and frequently drop out of the 700Mhz sites, getting out of range indicators. Do I perhaps have some odd unnoticed setting I'm missing? Or is the Somerset system very temperamental?

 

[richee2000]

Somerset County P25 TRS is temperamental, because of the combo UHF/700 system. I live in Bernards Twp, northern Somerset Co...where the signal varies, the 700 is good/weak in some areas, UHF good/weak in other areas, its never consistent. My SDS100 does not decode the system 100%.