Somerset County TRS Site Changes

[rr60]

No changes to the Somerset 500/700 sites, but I am seeing changes to the system controller that impacts site usage.

LEO in the past had access to both sites by affiliation. Some agencies were almost full time on both. Most frequently seen were PD Region 1 and Region 3 likely because of Vollers 500 site (no 700) and Rock Ave 500 site (no 700).

I am now seeing widespread denials for all LEO on the 500 Site 3 w exception of Public Safety.

The benefit to Fire and EMS is less system busy bonks during major events. Unless a new 700 site has been added, perhaps less coverage for those now only on the 700 cell.

My work around is to have two radios, one on each site. Unknown if this is temporary or permanent.

 

[FT752]

No changes to the Somerset 500/700 sites, but I am seeing changes to the system controller that impacts site usage.

LEO in the past had access to both sites by affiliation. Some agencies were almost full time on both. Most frequently seen were PD Region 1 and Region 3 likely because of Vollers 500 site (no 700) and Rock Ave 500 site (no 700).

I am now seeing widespread denials for all LEO on the 500 Site 3 w exception of Public Safety.

The benefit to Fire and EMS is less system busy bonks during major events. Unless a new 700 site has been added, perhaps less coverage for those now only on the 700 cell.

My work around is to have two radios, one on each site. Unknown if this is temporary or permanent.

Yeah, Public Safety remains primarily on the UHF side with respect to LE use, even with patrol being 700 now. I was surprised to see this when Bound Brook moved up and their same crappy XTL (known for extended open mic events and a period of absolute unintelligibility) remained in the stack. With that said, tropo is debilitating the function of Public Safety to the point where Watchung cannot get through and has to go back to landline most of the time. It appears to side with SCC-originating transmissions as their interactions with Warren remain 92% intact. Keep in mind that Public Safety is a multi-discipline TG, which is the only readily available TG that crosses both sites and is accessible as high as LEO and as low as DPW- thus if you see denials of Public Safety for an authorized subscriber, something is very wrong. I monitor Public Safety religiously, and have used it on several imperative occasions- so if I lose that, trouble is afoot.

I believe this will be more permanent as Sheriffs are basically through the move to 700, meaning LE is off the UHF Sim. Based on empirical evidence, the county cache radios are still in use with the Sheriff's road units, but I have no confirmation on the progress of the Zebra cars. Corrections and Courts bear another variable since they still use the 7000s due to their operations on UHF. Some images have surfaced depicting elongated antennas on the officers, believed to be the APX all-band; but this serves strictly as information until confirmed first-hand.

 

[rr60]

Yeah, Public Safety remains primarily on the UHF side with respect to LE use, even with patrol being 700 now. I was surprised to see this when Bound Brook moved up and their same crappy XTL (known for extended open mic events and a period of absolute unintelligibility) remained in the stack. With that said, tropo is debilitating the function of Public Safety to the point where Watchung cannot get through and has to go back to landline most of the time. It appears to side with SCC-originating transmissions as their interactions with Warren remain 92% intact. Keep in mind that Public Safety is a multi-discipline TG, which is the only readily available TG that crosses both sites and is accessible as high as LEO and as low as DPW- thus if you see denials of Public Safety for an authorized subscriber, something is very wrong. I monitor Public Safety religiously, and have used it on several imperative occasions- so if I lose that, trouble is afoot.

I believe this will be more permanent as Sheriffs are basically through the move to 700, meaning LE is off the UHF Sim. Based on empirical evidence, the county cache radios are still in use with the Sheriff's road units, but I have no confirmation on the progress of the Zebra cars. Corrections and Courts bear another variable since they still use the 7000s due to their operations on UHF. Some images have surfaced depicting elongated antennas on the officers, believed to be the APX all-band; but this serves strictly as information until confirmed first-hand.

Yes, PS LEO is OFF the UHF side including Sheriff. A few remain, Parks, F&M Public Safety and no denials. At least today that is valid.

It is interesting to me that there are two kinds of Mission Critical readiness. One level for those and another for all others that have been penned in on ( 03) 500 MHZ. There have been numerous debilitating tropo events this summer. Maybe that forced the move for LEO totally. One opening was active overnight. You see all TV stations in Portsmouth here including DTV19 500-506. 1000kw @ 1000’ and that is that.

TV stations received at Mount Bethel, NJ tuner0

rabbitears.info

 

[FT752]

Yes, PS LEO is OFF the UHF side including Sheriff. A few remain, Parks, F&M Public Safety and no denials. At least today that is valid.

It is interesting to me that there are two kinds of Mission Critical readiness. One level for those and another for all others that have been penned in on ( 03) 500 MHZ. There have been numerous debilitating tropo events this summer. Maybe that forced the move for LEO totally. One opening was active overnight. You see all TV stations in Portsmouth here including DTV19 500-506. 1000kw @ 1000’ and that is that.

TV stations received at Mount Bethel, NJ tuner0

rabbitears.info

Really? I guess those denials are either the older cars or the Correction/Court 7000s. Parks is like a self-dispatched police department- they only come up on county-monitored channels when necessary. And I do not need to explain F&M.

It's more like "who can take interference on portable, and who cannot".

 

[rr60]

Made a call. Sheriff’s we’re just issued loaner radios to access 700MHZ. Budget issues for now until they get new stuff. Can’t make this stuff up. Way to go Morris.

 

[FT752]

Made a call. Sheriff’s we’re just issued loaner radios to access 700MHZ. Budget issues for now until they get new stuff. Can’t make this stuff up. Way to go Morris.

Right, they have been on loaner since the end of May into June. Guess all those new cars and that base station radio killed them. For sure, you can't make this stuff up.

I agree that it is good on Morris to make headway into 700MHz. But I have already heard some scary things from an inside source that need to be ironed before the green light date.

 

[mdsxfire]

Yeah, Public Safety remains primarily on the UHF side with respect to LE use, even with patrol being 700 now. I was surprised to see this when Bound Brook moved up and their same crappy XTL (known for extended open mic events and a period of absolute unintelligibility) remained in the stack. With that said, tropo is debilitating the function of Public Safety to the point where Watchung cannot get through and has to go back to landline most of the time. It appears to side with SCC-originating transmissions as their interactions with Warren remain 92% intact. Keep in mind that Public Safety is a multi-discipline TG, which is the only readily available TG that crosses both sites and is accessible as high as LEO and as low as DPW- thus if you see denials of Public Safety for an authorized subscriber, something is very wrong. I monitor Public Safety religiously, and have used it on several imperative occasions- so if I lose that, trouble is afoot.

I believe this will be more permanent as Sheriffs are basically through the move to 700, meaning LE is off the UHF Sim. Based on empirical evidence, the county cache radios are still in use with the Sheriff's road units, but I have no confirmation on the progress of the Zebra cars. Corrections and Courts bear another variable since they still use the 7000s due to their operations on UHF. Some images have surfaced depicting elongated antennas on the officers, believed to be the APX all-band; but this serves strictly as information until confirmed first-hand.

Corrections was issued all new portables and have been on a 700 P25C repeater for almost 2 years now. Court operations are still on UHF i believe due to budget but there is either a 700 P25C repeater in operation or ready for when the make the switch

 

[FT752]

If that is the case of them being on 700 for over 2 years, then shouldn't the database reflect it? Seems the priorities went into the wrong places considering the UHF frequency for them is outside of T-Band and are not pushing harder than 5W. Though, what frequencies do they plan to operate on in P25C? The licenses for the county are from the SY trunking pool. Not the first time that the pool type is used opposite of its intention- but they don't need 100W.

Let it be known that their old base stations are still in use, so it does not seem UHF was going away anytime soon in their operations.

Courts will catch up at some point. But they definitely do not need 100W either- or even 25W for that matter.

 

[rr60]

What is on paper or not on paper is always a mystery, everywhere. There really is little
or no enforcement unless a complaint is filed. On paper perhaps 100W, unlikely in reality.

Could someone find license for a 700 TRS cell at Bernards Police Hq for me please. I have been looking. Plenty of paper in the vicinity.

 

[FT752]

It's Public Safety- you and I both know there is no enforcement there. It's not my battle to fight- just stating what is presented.

However, I also have been doing research on Bernardsville for 700 and the closest location to Bernardsville Police Department is on WQRK429 Location 1, which is cited to be ".76 m South of end of Flintlock St". That's the closest location I have discovered in proximity to their HQ, but is not new information. Also, I have not found anything 700 for their VRS system that enables the use of the APX radios. All the licensing I have on Bernardsville is Low Band or UHF.

 

[mdsxfire]

If that is the case of them being on 700 for over 2 years, then shouldn't the database reflect it? Seems the priorities went into the wrong places considering the UHF frequency for them is outside of T-Band and are not pushing harder than 5W. Though, what frequencies do they plan to operate on in P25C? The licenses for the county are from the SY trunking pool. Not the first time that the pool type is used opposite of its intention- but they don't need 100W.

Let it be known that their old base stations are still in use, so it does not seem UHF was going away anytime soon in their operations.

Courts will catch up at some point. But they definitely do not need 100W either- or even 25W for that matter.

i tried putting in an update but at the time didn’t know the NAC so my submission was denied. Priority for who? if ur the one using that radio then that’s your priority. Corrections radios were old and in horrible condition and they had the money to upgrade

 

[FT752]

Uhh for the patrol units who have been fighting the TRS tropo over a much larger geographic footprint? They use the radios too, much more than courts and corrections combined. And the corrections 7000s were that horrible? That's interesting.

 

[rr60]

It's Public Safety- you and I both know there is no enforcement there. It's not my battle to fight- just stating what is presented.

However, I also have been doing research on Bernardsville for 700 and the closest location to Bernardsville Police Department is on WQRK429 Location 1, which is cited to be ".76 m South of end of Flintlock St". That's the closest location I have discovered in proximity to their HQ, but is not new information. Also, I have not found anything 700 for their VRS system that enables the use of the APX radios. All the licensing I have on Bernardsville is Low Band or UHF.

No bueno…still looking thanks ! For me, an encrypted radio shop, and more leads to more questions.

 

[rr60]

So the only way to make this work ( getting all LEO ) off 500 and onto 700 was to add coverage for Region 1. The North cars were served by sites 500/700. It was Vollers 500 and Bernards PD 700 and some 500/700 from Miller Lane. Fair amount of North traffic and Bridgewater were seen on 500 to get coverage in the 287/78 bowl. @richee2000 do I have your interest?

There is new and improved 700 coverage in the North. It appears a simulcast site has been added on top of the hill 78/287 in Bedminster. In fact, -90dBm all the way up 206 into Chester.

UT shows no expansion of t channel capacity. It remains (3) usable Freq TDMA. I note a few TG remain Phase I such as Public Safety TG. This does not leave an abundance of talkpaths.

Last time I looked, a dozen or two 700 channels remained in the bank on slow growth.

 

[FT752]

So the only way to make this work ( getting all LEO ) off 500 and onto 700 was to add coverage for Region 1. The North cars were served by sites 500/700. It was Vollers 500 and Bernards PD 700 and some 500/700 from Miller Lane. Fair amount of North traffic and Bridgewater were seen on 500 to get coverage in the 287/78 bowl. @richee2000 do I have your interest?

Very interesting. A fair bit goes on in Region 1 being the most populated Police Region. Impressive coverage up 206.

UT shows no expansion of t channel capacity. It remains (3) usable Freq TDMA. I note a few TG remain Phase I such as Public Safety TG. This does not leave an abundance of talkpaths.

Right. As long as the 500 remains, Phase I for Public Safety will too. There are far too many Phase I subscribers to accomplish Phase II today. What were some other TG that you saw holding out on Phase II?

 

[rr60]

I have updated list showing what is where. I will take a look PI & PII groups. Has to be as much as 500’ or more gain in elevation from Bedminster to Chester. That helps. I compared signal to NJICS Site 28 as it is same location as Somerset 700. Apples to Oranges.

 

[mdsxfire]

so the capacity could double in theory if all the silent frequencies were being used (i understand they need to actually have/install the radios in each site for this to happen) and if all the TG were phase2, and then (budgets aside) fire and ems could slowly be brought onto the 700 system so they wouldn’t have to deal with tropo, leaving public safety/oem and the county non emergency services on the 500

 

[rr60]

so the capacity could double in theory if all the silent frequencies were being used (i understand they need to actually have/install the radios in each site for this to happen) and if all the TG were phase2, and then (budgets aside) fire and ems could slowly be brought onto the 700 system so they wouldn’t have to deal with tropo, leaving public safety/oem and the county non emergency services on the 500

You have entered the promised land of understanding and now see the problem.

I omitted two licenses that have 800 MHZ approvals. WQYP261 WRAM854. Below is updated resource list. Presently 3 channels are available for talk paths, unused capacity about 8 channels. That would be about a 250 percent increase in talk paths.

That is an amazing quantity of capacity, silent in Somerset. More capacity that could needed to accommodate everyone. The list below shows more capacity than NJICS Site 7 Union County which is burning with data & TG’s and users.

Somerset is yet another example of hoarding, along with many other licensees. If only there was a real FCC rule to put this valuable resource in service instead of pushing paper and consultants money.

The Somerset infrastructure exists by in large to support new GTR8000 repeaters as an existing 700 TRS system is in use. Morris for example had to start with much less, yet they are getting it done. Way to go Morris!

Sadly, the most disturbing matter is the life safety risk hazard for Fire and EMS left on 500 MHZ year after year. Tropospheric television signals ride in and out like waves. This RF (500-506 MHZ) overwhelms repeater inputs, especially those up high. The same DTV RF wipes out the Control Channel too. System outages can occur at anytime without warning, for minutes, hours or days at a time.

Will your call for help be heard? Maybe, maybe not. Not good, at all.

This is not Mission Critical performance (on the 500 p25 cell) and is totally unacceptable. I have read the many filings with the FCC from agencies expressing concerns about DTV tropo and the inherent life safety risk to users. The Counties specifically state they cannot and will not operate systems under these conditions risking their responders. Ocean and Morris are two that come to mind.

The dice are being rolled here in Somerset year after year and I personally object. I know many of our Counties unsung heroes and their families. I will be the first to be deposed or testify should the worst occur and yes I have plenty of hard evidence.

What is being done (or not) is bull****, period. No excuses, strive for excellence and do the right thing! You hold the keys, they can open anything!

 

[richee2000]

So the only way to make this work ( getting all LEO ) off 500 and onto 700 was to add coverage for Region 1. The North cars were served by sites 500/700. It was Vollers 500 and Bernards PD 700 and some 500/700 from Miller Lane. Fair amount of North traffic and Bridgewater were seen on 500 to get coverage in the 287/78 bowl. @richee2000 do I have your interest?

There is new and improved 700 coverage in the North. It appears a simulcast site has been added on top of the hill 78/287 in Bedminster. In fact, -90dBm all the way up 206 into Chester.

UT shows no expansion of t channel capacity. It remains (3) usable Freq TDMA. I note a few TG remain Phase I such as Public Safety TG. This does not leave an abundance of talkpaths.

Last time I looked, a dozen or two 700 channels remained in the bank on slow growth.

rr60, thank you for your , as always, detailed accurate and thorough information (without the sarcasm)

 

[rr60]

rr60, thank you for your , as always, detailed accurate and thorough information (without the sarcasm)