split from 'Bye Bye, EMSA"

[KE5EHI]

In an effort to avoid hijacking the original post, this is a split from Bye Bye, EMSA.

Do you think those millions of dollars a year they ask for in subsidies just come out of thin air.

No, of course not. I'm looking at the numbers... (I'm using Tulsa as an example because I'm more familiar with the information)

Now I don't know how much is spent from the city for equipment for EMSA, but I'm sure it's less than the police or fire department.

For FY2007

TFD budget ~ $56M
TPD budget ~ $88M
EMSA Subsidy ~ $3M (which the city didn't even pay for, it chose to vote for the taxpayers to pay themselves. At least the taxpayers have a choice to opt out, which you can't choose for TFD or TPD)

By the way, who do you think paid for those pretty new ambulances like the one you got in your avatar.

I see your point, but wouldn't the city have to pay for them even if fire took over?

Next think about who will pay for all of the supplies for the ambulances if it was part of fire... the taxpayer. Who pays for them now? Paramedics Plus, who also pays for the EMTs and Paramedics who would be on the fire departments budget. Plus EMSA restocks a lot of fire's supplies (at least in Tulsa), which is saving the fire dept. money.

So far that means as far as supplies and personnel, two large expenses, taxpayers don't have to pay for which they most likely would if fire took over.

Now I'm not saying that fire couldn't handle the job, but financially it makes more sense to keep EMSA. That was proven at the last renewal window.

Nevertheless, calling them a "leading EMS provider in the nation" is a little much given that they only serve Tulsa, OKC, and the surrounding metros.

True. What I meant was compared to similar type services that serve a similar populous, EMSA statistically ranks high in areas such as cardiac arrest saves and ranks low in areas such as cost to the city from a subsidy.

How old is modern EMS? Roughly 40 years or so I believe. EMSA has been around for 30 of those. So now let me ask, if you needed to have a life-threating surgery done, do you want the doctor that fresh out of medical school or the one that's been doing those same surgeries for decades?

...but I have to note that every time that OCFD or TFD starts rumbling about taking over EMS, it's never about bidding for the service under EMSA, it's always about doing away with EMSA and their quality programs and hiking their own budgets.

Funny isn't it?

It will stop when we do away with a for profit agency being allowed to due a public service job. My opnion is let the fire run the EMS service we would get alot better service guranteed. Just my thoughts

There are a lot of doctors that disagree with you (which work with both fire- and private-based services). How is it guaranteed again? Just my thoughts...

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Police officers want to be officers to serve and protect. They train to be police officers.

Firefighters want to be firefighters to fight fires. They train to fight fires.

EMTs want to be EMTs to help people with medical need. They train to help people medically.

No one is trying to take over police or fire, why are they obsessed with taking over EMS? My opinion: More jobs for the union and more money in the budget.

 

[BCFD25]

Next think about who will pay for all of the supplies for the ambulances if it was part of fire... the taxpayer. Who pays for them now? Paramedics Plus, who also pays for the EMTs and Paramedics who would be on the fire departments budget. Plus EMSA restocks a lot of fire's supplies (at least in Tulsa), which is saving the fire dept. money.

So far that means as far as supplies and personnel, two large expenses, taxpayers don't have to pay for which they most likely would if fire took over.

Now I'm not saying that fire couldn't handle the job, but financially it makes more sense to keep EMSA. That was proven at the last renewal window.

Last I checked neither EMSA or paramedics plus were in the business of printing money. They still get their funding from the taxpayers. Whether its when the patient gets a bill or their insurance gets one (for the few people left in the world who even have insurance) or they bill Medicare.

As far as restocking fds supplies, we do the same thing here. But you can garuantee that someone is still getting the bill for it. Either way the taxpayer is gonna pay, whether its through insurance, payments, social security.

In an effort to keep from attracting unwanted attention could we agree to disagree?

 

[KE5EHI]

In an effort to keep from attracting unwanted attention could we agree to disagree?

Not looking to attract unwanted attention, just a discussion. Sure we can disagree, that's what this country is founded on isn't it

Just trying to point out that EMSA primarily funds itself from the revenue generated by those who use the service instead of putting a heavier burden on the taxpayer that a lot of other similar services or fire based services do. Yes it does costs the taxpayers one way or another, but a lot of those costs would still be there regardless of who the EMS provider was.

Not trying to say EMSA is the cream of the crop, but it's not as bad as a lot of people try to make it out to be, mainly because they don't have all of the information (this applies to me as well, there's still a lot I don't know).

 

[plaws]

No one is trying to take over police or fire, why are they obsessed with taking over EMS? My opinion: More jobs for the union and more money in the budget.

Two things. 1) Emergency! Greatest TV show ever (even if the DVDs aren't well produced!). That makes some think that the 35 year old LA County model is the bestest and only model for EMS delivery in the world. 2) They don't want EMS jobs (look at how medics and EMTs are treated in the FDNY, for example - no parity!), the department brass wants the money. It's all about budget. Look at FDNY again. EMS Command does, by far, most of the work in the system but look how the budget is skewed toward the fire side.

That said, there is certainly nothing wrong with FD EMS at all. Works great in lots of places. When I lived in Chicagoland, most of the suburbs had FD EMS, with only a few contracting it out to privateers. Our local medics were well-trained and were even doing stuff like needle cricothyroidectomies. We never did that at the hospital where I was a medic back in the dark ages. Chicago Fire medics? Well, let's just say that I don't know that they did needle crics ...