SRCCS Question

tvengr

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Why does the Sacramento Co Sheriff have 2 dispatch and 2 tac talkgroups for each district? In the description the secondary talkgroup says digital. Aren't they both digital. Thanks!



3847f07DSSD 1Sheriff Dispatch 1 NorthLaw Dispatch
85935bDSSD D1Sheriff Dispatch 1 Secondary (Digital)Law Talk
 
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mcjones2013

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The "(Digital)" ones shouldn't be listed. Use the 38xx dispatch talkgroups.

From what I've been told by insiders, with the exception of the encrypted 8xx talkgroups, the "(Digital)" 8xx talkgroups were created on the hybrid analog/digital SmartZone system years ago as a way for Sacramento Sheriff (SSD) to go digital, before the P25 system was operational. It never happened. SSD did use some of the 8xx talkgroups (on the SmartZone system, they converted to 14xxx) for encrypted communications (SD E14, SD E15, SD E16, and some specialized narcotics teams) on the SmartZone system, and now on the P25 system.
 

mcjones2013

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867363SD E5Records (Encrypted)
885375SD E14Tactical 4 (Encrypted)
889379SD E16Tactical 6 (Encrypted)
915393SD CMT1CAL-MMET 1 (Encrypted)
917395SD CMT2CAL-MMET 2 (Encrypted)
919397SD CNETCNET (Encrypted)
921399SD CRIPCRIP (Encrypted)
92339BSD HDA1HIDA (Encrypted)
92539DSD NIDNID (Encrypted)
92739FSD NARC2Narcotics 2 (Encrypted)
9293A1SD DAM WFolsom Dam Security Bureau (Encrypted)
9373A9SED ESECSpecial Enforcement Detail (Encrypted)
9393ABWARR SECMajor Crimes Bureau (Encrypted)
9413ADSD DET E3Detectives 3 (Encrypted)
9433AFSD POP E2Problem Oriented Policing 2 (Encrypted)
2981BA5S E OSpecialized Equipment Operations
3847F07SD 1Dispatch 1
3849F09SD 2Dispatch 2
3851F0BSD 3Dispatch 3
3853F0DSD 4Dispatch 4
3855F0FSD 5Records (Outside Agency Access)
3857F11SD 6Airport Bureau
3859F13SD 7Juvenile Courthouse
3861F15SD 8Security Services
3863F17SD 9Work Release
3865F19SD 10Special Events
3879F27SD DET1Detectives 1
3881F29SD DET2Detectives 2
3883F2BSD DET3Detectives 3
3895F37SD NARC1Narcotics 1
3897F39SD NARC2Narcotics 2
3901F3DSD SPOP1Problem Oriented Policing 1
3903F3FSD SPOP2Problem Oriented Policing 2
3911F47SD T1Tactical 1
3913F49SD T2Tactical 2
3915F4BSD T3Tactical 3
3917F4DSD T4Tactical 4 (Outside Agency Access)
3919F4FSD T5Tactical 5
3921F51SD T6Tactical 6 (Outside Agency Access)
3927F57SD SC1Folsom Dam Security
3929F59SD SC2Security/Corrections 2
3941F65DA 1District Attorney 1
3943F67DA 2District Attorney 2
3945F69DA 3District Attorney 3
3951F6FSD TNG1Training 1 (DTRF)
3957F75SD TS2Technical Services 2
3967F7FS E DSpecial Enforcement Detail
 

gmclam

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mcjones, you posted a list, but I am not sure what that's of. Is that a list of active TGs?
Here's a short list of what I see in UniTrunker

2020-09-21 05_14_20-Clipboard.png
 

mlangeveld

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The "(Digital)" ones shouldn't be listed. Use the 38xx dispatch talkgroups.

From what I've been told by insiders, with the exception of the encrypted 8xx talkgroups, the "(Digital)" 8xx talkgroups were created on the hybrid analog/digital SmartZone system years ago as a way for Sacramento Sheriff (SSD) to go digital, before the P25 system was operational. It never happened. SSD did use some of the 8xx talkgroups (on the SmartZone system, they converted to 14xxx) for encrypted communications (SD E14, SD E15, SD E16, and some specialized narcotics teams) on the SmartZone system, and now on the P25 system.
Does this go for Citrus Heights and Galt "digital" talkgroups as well? Can you advise if any of these talkgroups (103-111, 1227-1231) are used on the P25 system?

I submitted an update for the Sheriff talkgroups.
 

mcjones2013

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Citrus Heights: 103, 105, 107, 109, 111 are not used on the P25 system. The ESWAT channels are (113-121).
Galt: 1227, 1229, 1231 are not used.
Rancho Cordova: 1191 no recorded use.

Honestly, there's a lot that could be taken out of the database. While it may exist in the fleet map, there's no recorded use on many of the talkgroups, nor are they programmed into any radios or consoles, they're just "paper talkgroups".
 

mlangeveld

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I've made a submission to delete 103-111, 859-865, 869-883, 887, 1191, and 1227-1231.

If you know of any other TGs that definitely do not exist, feel free to submit them to the DB to be deleted. If it's a TG that is programmed in the radios and just not used, it should stay in the DB.

When SmartZone systems convert to P25 using SmartX, many of the talkgroups often get carried over by simply dividing the TGID by 16. For DB purposes, they usually just convert all the TGs, but this doesn't account for any changes made in the switchover, or TGs that were incorrect on SmartZone and then the error gets carried over to P25. The best way to sort out what exists and what doesn't is running Unitrunker long-term, so we all really appreciate all the work you've put into figuring out SRRCS!
 

mcjones2013

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Oh yeah. Been running Unitrunker for almost two years, and access to official sources. I'll submit any changes.
 

mlangeveld

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I've made a submission to delete 103-111, 859-865, 869-883, 887, 1191, and 1227-1231.
Apparently these talkgroups still exist in a backup zone on the SSD radios, so they're going to be labeled as such and listed further down in the talkgroup category. That way there's no confusion over which are the primary dispatch talkgroups.
 

inigo88

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The "(Digital)" ones shouldn't be listed. Use the 38xx dispatch talkgroups.

From what I've been told by insiders, with the exception of the encrypted 8xx talkgroups, the "(Digital)" 8xx talkgroups were created on the hybrid analog/digital SmartZone system years ago as a way for Sacramento Sheriff (SSD) to go digital, before the P25 system was operational. It never happened. SSD did use some of the 8xx talkgroups (on the SmartZone system, they converted to 14xxx) for encrypted communications (SD E14, SD E15, SD E16, and some specialized narcotics teams) on the SmartZone system, and now on the P25 system.
I see how this was confusing and I moved the "D talkgroups" toward the end and re-labeled them "Secondary/Fallback", as was said in the submission. They are supposedly backup channels to be used if the primaries fail (though I don't know how that would work since they're all on the same trunking system haha). I researched the submission that added those talkgroups and it appears credible. They don't appear to be "paper talkgroups" and are actually programmed in the radios... they're just buried so far away from the primary zone that nobody ever affiliates to them.

From my outsider perspective it appears those were the Smartzone era "Digital" versions of the talkgroups back when SSD was analog. When they transitioned to SRRCS P25 they just copied the fleetmaps verbatim from the original system, and were left with all these redundant "D" talkgroups, so now they've retained them in a backup/fallback capacity.
 

mcjones2013

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From my outsider perspective it appears those were the Smartzone era "Digital" versions of the talkgroups back when SSD was analog. When they transitioned to SRRCS P25 they just copied the fleetmaps verbatim from the original system, and were left with all these redundant "D" talkgroups, so now they've retained them in a backup/fallback capacity.
My use of "paper talkgroups" probably wasn't the best term to use in this case. You're perspective is more on the money. They existed as a way to go digital before the P25 system existed, although some/most were never utilized, although they may have been programmed somewhere in the radio. As you said, I'm sure most got copied over (CDCR keys up on D CH 2 trying to hail Citrus Heights occasionally, and dispatch does reply so they are monitored).
 
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