SRCCS Question

[tvengr]

Why does the Sacramento Co Sheriff have 2 dispatch and 2 tac talkgroups for each district? In the description the secondary talkgroup says digital. Aren't they both digital. Thanks!

3847	f07	D	SSD 1	Sheriff Dispatch 1 North	Law Dispatch
859	35b	D	SSD D1	Sheriff Dispatch 1 Secondary (Digital)	Law Talk

 

[mcjones2013]

The "(Digital)" ones shouldn't be listed. Use the 38xx dispatch talkgroups.

From what I've been told by insiders, with the exception of the encrypted 8xx talkgroups, the "(Digital)" 8xx talkgroups were created on the hybrid analog/digital SmartZone system years ago as a way for Sacramento Sheriff (SSD) to go digital, before the P25 system was operational. It never happened. SSD did use some of the 8xx talkgroups (on the SmartZone system, they converted to 14xxx) for encrypted communications (SD E14, SD E15, SD E16, and some specialized narcotics teams) on the SmartZone system, and now on the P25 system.

 

[tvengr]

Thank you very much! I am easily confused.

 

[mcjones2013]

867	363	SD E5	Records (Encrypted)
885	375	SD E14	Tactical 4 (Encrypted)
889	379	SD E16	Tactical 6 (Encrypted)
915	393	SD CMT1	CAL-MMET 1 (Encrypted)
917	395	SD CMT2	CAL-MMET 2 (Encrypted)
919	397	SD CNET	CNET (Encrypted)
921	399	SD CRIP	CRIP (Encrypted)
923	39B	SD HDA1	HIDA (Encrypted)
925	39D	SD NID	NID (Encrypted)
927	39F	SD NARC2	Narcotics 2 (Encrypted)
929	3A1	SD DAM W	Folsom Dam Security Bureau (Encrypted)
937	3A9	SED ESEC	Special Enforcement Detail (Encrypted)
939	3AB	WARR SEC	Major Crimes Bureau (Encrypted)
941	3AD	SD DET E3	Detectives 3 (Encrypted)
943	3AF	SD POP E2	Problem Oriented Policing 2 (Encrypted)
2981	BA5	S E O	Specialized Equipment Operations
3847	F07	SD 1	Dispatch 1
3849	F09	SD 2	Dispatch 2
3851	F0B	SD 3	Dispatch 3
3853	F0D	SD 4	Dispatch 4
3855	F0F	SD 5	Records (Outside Agency Access)
3857	F11	SD 6	Airport Bureau
3859	F13	SD 7	Juvenile Courthouse
3861	F15	SD 8	Security Services
3863	F17	SD 9	Work Release
3865	F19	SD 10	Special Events
3879	F27	SD DET1	Detectives 1
3881	F29	SD DET2	Detectives 2
3883	F2B	SD DET3	Detectives 3
3895	F37	SD NARC1	Narcotics 1
3897	F39	SD NARC2	Narcotics 2
3901	F3D	SD SPOP1	Problem Oriented Policing 1
3903	F3F	SD SPOP2	Problem Oriented Policing 2
3911	F47	SD T1	Tactical 1
3913	F49	SD T2	Tactical 2
3915	F4B	SD T3	Tactical 3
3917	F4D	SD T4	Tactical 4 (Outside Agency Access)
3919	F4F	SD T5	Tactical 5
3921	F51	SD T6	Tactical 6 (Outside Agency Access)
3927	F57	SD SC1	Folsom Dam Security
3929	F59	SD SC2	Security/Corrections 2
3941	F65	DA 1	District Attorney 1
3943	F67	DA 2	District Attorney 2
3945	F69	DA 3	District Attorney 3
3951	F6F	SD TNG1	Training 1 (DTRF)
3957	F75	SD TS2	Technical Services 2
3967	F7F	S E D	Special Enforcement Detail

 

[tvengr]

Thank You!!!

 

[gmclam]

mcjones, you posted a list, but I am not sure what that's of. Is that a list of active TGs?
Here's a short list of what I see in UniTrunker

 

[officer_415]

The "(Digital)" ones shouldn't be listed. Use the 38xx dispatch talkgroups.

From what I've been told by insiders, with the exception of the encrypted 8xx talkgroups, the "(Digital)" 8xx talkgroups were created on the hybrid analog/digital SmartZone system years ago as a way for Sacramento Sheriff (SSD) to go digital, before the P25 system was operational. It never happened. SSD did use some of the 8xx talkgroups (on the SmartZone system, they converted to 14xxx) for encrypted communications (SD E14, SD E15, SD E16, and some specialized narcotics teams) on the SmartZone system, and now on the P25 system.

Does this go for Citrus Heights and Galt "digital" talkgroups as well? Can you advise if any of these talkgroups (103-111, 1227-1231) are used on the P25 system?

I submitted an update for the Sheriff talkgroups.

 

[mcjones2013]

Citrus Heights: 103, 105, 107, 109, 111 are not used on the P25 system. The ESWAT channels are (113-121).
Galt: 1227, 1229, 1231 are not used.
Rancho Cordova: 1191 no recorded use.

Honestly, there's a lot that could be taken out of the database. While it may exist in the fleet map, there's no recorded use on many of the talkgroups, nor are they programmed into any radios or consoles, they're just "paper talkgroups".

 

[officer_415]

I've made a submission to delete 103-111, 859-865, 869-883, 887, 1191, and 1227-1231.

If you know of any other TGs that definitely do not exist, feel free to submit them to the DB to be deleted. If it's a TG that is programmed in the radios and just not used, it should stay in the DB.

When SmartZone systems convert to P25 using SmartX, many of the talkgroups often get carried over by simply dividing the TGID by 16. For DB purposes, they usually just convert all the TGs, but this doesn't account for any changes made in the switchover, or TGs that were incorrect on SmartZone and then the error gets carried over to P25. The best way to sort out what exists and what doesn't is running Unitrunker long-term, so we all really appreciate all the work you've put into figuring out SRRCS!

 

[mcjones2013]

Oh yeah. Been running Unitrunker for almost two years, and access to official sources. I'll submit any changes.

 

[officer_415]

I've made a submission to delete 103-111, 859-865, 869-883, 887, 1191, and 1227-1231.

Apparently these talkgroups still exist in a backup zone on the SSD radios, so they're going to be labeled as such and listed further down in the talkgroup category. That way there's no confusion over which are the primary dispatch talkgroups.

 

[inigo88]

The "(Digital)" ones shouldn't be listed. Use the 38xx dispatch talkgroups.

From what I've been told by insiders, with the exception of the encrypted 8xx talkgroups, the "(Digital)" 8xx talkgroups were created on the hybrid analog/digital SmartZone system years ago as a way for Sacramento Sheriff (SSD) to go digital, before the P25 system was operational. It never happened. SSD did use some of the 8xx talkgroups (on the SmartZone system, they converted to 14xxx) for encrypted communications (SD E14, SD E15, SD E16, and some specialized narcotics teams) on the SmartZone system, and now on the P25 system.

I see how this was confusing and I moved the "D talkgroups" toward the end and re-labeled them "Secondary/Fallback", as was said in the submission. They are supposedly backup channels to be used if the primaries fail (though I don't know how that would work since they're all on the same trunking system haha). I researched the submission that added those talkgroups and it appears credible. They don't appear to be "paper talkgroups" and are actually programmed in the radios... they're just buried so far away from the primary zone that nobody ever affiliates to them.

From my outsider perspective it appears those were the Smartzone era "Digital" versions of the talkgroups back when SSD was analog. When they transitioned to SRRCS P25 they just copied the fleetmaps verbatim from the original system, and were left with all these redundant "D" talkgroups, so now they've retained them in a backup/fallback capacity.

 

[mcjones2013]

From my outsider perspective it appears those were the Smartzone era "Digital" versions of the talkgroups back when SSD was analog. When they transitioned to SRRCS P25 they just copied the fleetmaps verbatim from the original system, and were left with all these redundant "D" talkgroups, so now they've retained them in a backup/fallback capacity.

My use of "paper talkgroups" probably wasn't the best term to use in this case. You're perspective is more on the money. They existed as a way to go digital before the P25 system existed, although some/most were never utilized, although they may have been programmed somewhere in the radio. As you said, I'm sure most got copied over (CDCR keys up on D CH 2 trying to hail Citrus Heights occasionally, and dispatch does reply so they are monitored).