Sticky Thread for MilAir II

[SquelchKnob]

You can hear Clearance Delivery? I hate you.

I was hoping when I moved here I was going to be able to pick up groundside. Even brought a Handheld with me when I came out for house hunting and played with it in the Hotel Room and even sat in the driveway at the house I was looking at. I picked up the ATIS with a Handheld while in the car so I knew I was going to be OK.

I seem to have some dead spots. Blocked by Bldgs I guess. Had VQ-4 OK talking to Maint. while sitting on the line. Also had them talking to Ground for engine startups and TAXI approval. Once moving though it seemed I lost them till they got to there take off position at the end of 06. But I had them sitting there and all the way through takeoff.

I also seem to get 'decent' coverage of the security people's handhelds for VQ-4. Still have not nailed a Maint Freq of any sort. Most of the other activities on base appear to have HandHelds their Maint. personnel use while out on the line. I can't nail VQ-4. So I just finishied setting up the Pro-26 to search/store everything it finds from 138-144. Gotta start somewhere. :roll:

BTW. I just pulled up the audio from that brief hit I had on 311.0 just after ROYAL 76 got in the air"
0954: 311.0 - " 'SENTINAL' this is 'FOOTWORK' request you authenticate ALPHA JULIET KILO over. "
The SENTINAL C/S is 'iffy'. That was my best guess. Was also thinking SEMINOLE. Whatever it was it sounded similar to these.
The FOOTWORK C/S I have high confidence in.

 

[TinEar]

I am close enough to them that I can hear the aircraft calling SHADOW OPS on their Maint. freq even when the bird is still sitting on the flightline. They have been pretty quiet this weekend.

0942: 135.2 Got something leaving PAX right now. Said he was a Heavy. Just got Taxi Approval to RWY 6.
0948: 388 Calling Shadow Maint on 135.2. No response cause he is on the wrong freq and radio
0949: Now all the sudden have a ROYAL 76 up on 121.0
0950: 388 calling Shadow Maint now on 310.15
* Of course they decide to fly now that I have about 1/2 my radios offline
0952: Getting comms on 311.0 Will have to review the audio to get the notes later. It was a request for authentication

The bird is up and gone and I don't have all my radios configured to follow these guys like I want but I am close to being there. Should be there by the end of the day if all goes well.

Just checking ROYAL 76 clearance info as given on PAX Clearance Delivery PER MY RECORDED AUDIO
0941: 135.2 CLNC DEL - "ROYAL 76 HEAVY YOU ARE CLEARED TO TANGO XRAY KILO FOXTROT VIA THE PATUXENT 093 RADIO TO SALSBURY - CHAMP THEN AS FILED. UPON DEPARTURE REMAIN RUNWAY HEADING MAINTAIN 3000. EXPECT FLIGHT LEVEL 270 ONE ZERO MINUTES AFTER DEPARTURE. YOUR DEPARTURE CONTROL FREQUENCY IS 121.0 OR 250.3. SQUAWK 0570."

Unfortunately that appears to be about all I got on the recorded audio for now. Once I get a little further along with the setup here I'll be able to dedicate a few radios to these guys.

The beauty of that stuff you logged JR is that it proves we can get the callsign even before takeoff rather than just the last three of the BuNo when talking to Maintenance on the 310.15 freq. The objective then will be to follow ROYAL 76 as he works departure and then through the handoffs until he's with ZDC. I'm really envious of your location to be able to hear those ground controllers. It's the type coverage I have of BWI which is useless to me except for once a month maybe when a military aircraft lands there.

We also learned from that Clearance Delivery message that he's heading for Bermuda (TXKF) and his heading after takeoff (Patuxent 093 radial to Salisbury.) It also explains why I have such a difficult time hearing them before they get to ZDC (maintain 3000.) Once he gets cleared to his assigned flight level of 270, 10 minutes after departure, he's obviously going to be heard by everyone within a couple of hundred miles of there. Even the next airspace fix at CHAMP gives us his direction of flight (Offshore Atlantic fix in ZNY airspace.)

Many thanks JR for that tremendous insight into 164388's departure.

 

[jmhayes]

Just checking ROYAL 76 clearance info ...

Wait, isn't ROYAL being used by C-17s?

 

[TinEar]

Wait, isn't ROYAL being used by C-17s?

Yes, it's used by the new Dover C-17s for regular Air Force flights (RIDER for AFRC crews.) However, there's nothing stopping aircraft that use one-time-calls from duplicating callsigns used by other units. Beware of the suffix though but Dover will know there's a 76 in the ATC system when they schedule their flights.

The next question is...did a C-17 sneak into Patuxent and is the one now leaving? Nope...the authentication process on 311.0 tells us it isn't a C-17 just because they don't need to do that. That authentication is to someone in the back end of the plane and is probably the back end callsign heard in the 311.0 message (SENTINAL or SEMINOLE) that JR tried to pull out. I'd bet that callsign changes for every flight also -- such as the BIRDSONG I logged a couple of days ago calling AROMATIC. AROMATIC might have been today's FOOTWORK on the ground.
Just thought of something...the SENTINAL/FOOTWORK callsigns might be reversed...depending on who initiated the authentication request. Hard to tell from a written recap of it. Guess it doesn't matter because they'll be different next time anyway.

 

[SquelchKnob]

Yes, it's used by the new Dover C-17s for regular Air Force flights (RIDER for AFRC crews.) However, there's nothing stopping aircraft that use one-time-calls from duplicating callsigns used by other units. Beware of the suffix though but Dover will know there's a 76 in the ATC system when they schedule their flights.

The next question is...did a C-17 sneak into Patuxent and is the one now leaving? Nope...the authentication process on 311.0 tells us it isn't a C-17 just because they don't need to do that. That authentication is to someone in the back end of the plane and is probably the back end callsign heard in the 311.0 message (SENTINAL or SEMINOLE) that JR tried to pull out. I'd bet that callsign changes for every flight also -- such as the BIRDSONG I logged a couple of days ago calling AROMATIC. AROMATIC might have been today's FOOTWORK on the ground.
Just thought of something...the SENTINAL/FOOTWORK callsigns might be reversed...depending on who initiated the authentication request. Hard to tell from a written recap of it. Guess it doesn't matter because they'll be different next time anyway.

My software has the ability to convert the audio into a number of formats. I have not played with it but I can covert that single audio clip and email it to you if you like. And I just listened to it again. SHANENDOAH came to mind this time

 

[TinEar]

My software has the ability to convert the audio into a number of formats. I have not played with it but I can covert that single audio clip and email it to you if you like.

If you don't mind taking the time to do it, I'd really like to hear it JR. Thanks. mp3 format is fine if that's easy.

 

[SquelchKnob]

If you don't mind taking the time to do it, I'd really like to hear it JR. Thanks. mp3 format is fine if that's easy.

HA! that was easy. In wav format though. Gimme a few.

 

[TinEar]

HA! that was easy. In wav format though. Gimme a few.

Wav is okay too.

Got it JR. Many thanks. After listening to it about 50 times, I'm still not sure of the callwords used. I lean toward SEMINOLE more than SENTINAL on the first one. The second one I'm having more trouble with. My problem is that I can hear an 'S' on the end of the word. FOOTWORKS??? doesn't make sense...but I can't get anything else out of it either other than that. Of course, the 'S' sound may be a result of the hash on the frequency at that time. Listen for the S and tell me what you think.

 

[SquelchKnob]

Wav is okay too.

On the way, Sent to the email on your website. That OK?

Got it JR. Many thanks. After listening to it about 50 times, I'm still not sure of the callwords used. I lean toward SEMINOLE more than SENTINAL on the first one. The second one I'm having more trouble with. My problem is that I can hear an 'S' on the end of the word. FOOTWORKS??? doesn't make sense...but I can't get anything else out of it either other than that. Of course, the 'S' sound may be a result of the hash on the frequency at that time. Listen for the S and tell me what you think.

I got my head stuck in a few other things right now. I'll play with it later and try running it through the Audio Processesor and clean it up a bit and try it that way. I should have saved that GIANT SHOT clip for ya but I deleted that.

 

[SquelchKnob]

I have further recorded audio from the return flight:
First off let's try this for the C/S used on the first clip we worked.
09:52:34 311.0 - "PETTIBONE ' this is 'FOOTWORK' request you authenticate ALPHA JULIET KILO over. "

from the return flight all on 311.0:
17:01:46 "FOOTWORK, FOOTWORK, this is PETTIBONE on three eleven how copy over?"
17:02:06 "FOOTWORK, this is PETTIBONE. Be advised my station is approximately 10 mics out."
17:02:38 "FOOTWORK, this is PETTIBONE. Roger copy that. AT and AE dailies, you request help with, and the deer sweep is done. PETTIBONE out"
17:03:25 "ROGER, copy that, no further traffic, PETTIBONE out.

(corrected 12/31/07) So FOOTWORK is GroundSide & PETTIBONE is the aircraft. Note that for the return flight I did not hear anything at all from groundside on 311.0. Not even Broken squelch.

Also had numerous comms from 88 calling SHADOW MAINT on 310.15 during the same time frame. Struck me as a bit odd but pretty much the same traffic was being passed concerning the Maint. But by different individuals and in more detail. I could hear both groundside and aircraft on 310.15

 

[TinEar]

I have further recorded audio from the return flight:
First off let's try this for the C/S used on the first clip we worked.
09:52:34 311.0 - "PETTIBONE ' this is 'FOOTWORK' request you authenticate ALPHA JULIET KILO over. "

from the return flight all on 311.0:
17:01:46 "FOOTWORK, FOOTWORK, this is PETTIBONE on three eleven how copy over?"
17:02:06 "FOOTWORK, this is PETTIBONE. Be advised my station is approximately 10 mics out."
17:02:38 "FOOTWORK, this is PETTIBONE. Roger copy that. AT and AE dailies, you request help with, and the deer sweep is done. PETTIBONE out"
17:03:25 "ROGER, copy that, no further traffic, PETTIBONE out.

SO PETTIBONE is GroundSide & FOOTWORK is the aircraft. Note that for the return flight I did not hear anything at all from groundside on 311.0. Not even Broken squelch.

Also had numerous comms from 88 calling SHADOW MAINT on 310.15 during the same time frame. Struck me as a bit odd but pretty much the same traffic was being passed concerning the Maint. But by different individuals and in more detail. I could hear both groundside and aircraft on 310.15

The thing that really puzzles me about the 311.0 traffic is that I don't hear it - or, I should say, have not heard the E-6s using it in the past. I monitor that freq constantly because, in this area, both the Pittsburgh and Seymour Johnson tankers use it for a CP freq. I wonder if they're transmitting at extremely low power on that freq? During the recent six day CAP, I had a radio parked on that freq to catch the tankers and never heard a peep from the E-6s which did fly during that period - although their traffic has slowed down during this holiday period like everything else.

I know you're saying PETTIBONE is the ground station but the transmissions look more like the aircraft when he says...."Be advised my station is approximately 10 mics out." Wouldn't that be the aircraft telling ground he's 10 minutes out? Or, I guess ground could have just been repeating the transmission from the aircraft. This is very interesting stuff simply because it's breaking new and fertile ground for MilAir transmissions we (well, I) didn't know existed down at Pax. That 311-nothing freq is the one that has really grabbed my interest. Thanks again JR for posting it.

 

[jmhayes]

The thing that really puzzles me about the 311.0 traffic is that I don't hear it - or, I should say, have not heard the E-6s using it in the past

I've heard them on this coast use it as an informal A/A ... I get the feeling that since it's on their presets, they use it. I've heard them call each other by the moniker PAC CREW N (like '4' or '7') on that freq, and I've also heard them pass traffic like JR posted, using the longer callsigns. There is often a reference to 'dailies' which I think is a set of things they have to do to the aircraft everytime it flies so that the next time they go out they could possibly stay up for a long time -- sort of a mini-A Check? I've seen references that say they could stay up for 72 hours, but I think that's only if they were at zero hours when they took off -- those 707s can't fly for too long without adding oil.

 

[TinEar]

I've heard them on this coast use it as an informal A/A ... I get the feeling that since it's on their presets, they use it. I've heard them call each other by the moniker PAC CREW N (like '4' or '7') on that freq....

I like that Pac Crew-N call because it seems to indicate there are Pacific crews and probably Atlantic crews. From what I've been able to follow, there are certain of the E-6Bs that work this coast and others on the west coast. For instance here are the E-6B BuNos I've heard here just during December...
163918 - 163920 - 164386 - 164388 - 164404 - 164407 - 164410
A couple of those made only one or two appearances (that I've noted) and others have flown constantly - like 388 and 410. On the west coast, I know 164408 and 164409 have had heavy mission rotation during December although others have been heard there too such as 164387 - 163918 - 163919.
From various reports I think 163918 might be a northern border mission rather than along either coast - at least during December - but it will take a whole lot more digging over a longer period to determine such things. That particular aircraft was at least heard here from the 10th through the 13th of the month although I have no idea where his mission area was. I just remember logging several times during the month certain E-6s taking off from Pax and heading northwest.

Guess everything is going to stay quiet until Wednesday at the earliest.

 

[jmhayes]

From various reports I think 163918 might be a northern border mission rather than along either coast - at least during December - but it will take a whole lot more digging over a longer period to determine such things.

What's a Northern Border mission? I thought they only had two missions: TACAMO and ABNCP? I get the feeling they do a lot of work to stay current and keep from falling asleep: I often hear them asking for clearances to just far away navigation points, essentially to stay airborne, not to actually tick off any particular places. The other night one of them went on a Grand Tour of the Western States: Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and back to Travis.

I bet a current or former E-6 crew member is chuckling over our speculations

 

[TinEar]

Yeah, I guess I should have used a better term than Northern Border Mission. I didn't mean from Maine to Washington (although you never know.) I had more in mind the northeastern U.S. region where they fly from Pax to perhaps the western border of New York up to Maine and back down the coast to Pax - very roughly speaking.

And you're right - we might just be giving some AF folks a hearty laugh. On the other hand, some may be having severe heartburn.

 

[jmhayes]

we might just be giving some AF folks a hearty laugh

Er ... Navy

I think those long excursions are just x-country flyin' ...

 

[TinEar]

Er ... Navy

Nope...Air Force. Yes, it's a Navy aircraft with a (mostly) Navy crew but the Air Force does the mission tracking and coordination.

 

[SquelchKnob]

The thing that really puzzles me about the 311.0 traffic is that I don't hear it - or, I should say, have not heard the E-6s using it in the past. I monitor that freq constantly because, in this area, both the Pittsburgh and Seymour Johnson tankers use it for a CP freq. I wonder if they're transmitting at extremely low power on that freq? During the recent six day CAP, I had a radio parked on that freq to catch the tankers and never heard a peep from the E-6s which did fly during that period - although their traffic has slowed down during this holiday period like everything else.

I know you're saying PETTIBONE is the ground station but the transmissions look more like the aircraft when he says...."Be advised my station is approximately 10 mics out." Wouldn't that be the aircraft telling ground he's 10 minutes out? Or, I guess ground could have just been repeating the transmission from the aircraft. This is very interesting stuff simply because it's breaking new and fertile ground for MilAir transmissions we (well, I) didn't know existed down at Pax. That 311-nothing freq is the one that has really grabbed my interest. Thanks again JR for posting it.

Oops, Thats what I get for staying up till 4 in the morning. PETTIBONE was the aircraft.

This is all new stuff for me as I am not used to monitoring these guys. I was even thinking about the slight possibility that they had a screwed up radio. 310.15 and 311.0 are close enough together that if they were putting out enough power or their radio was screwed up they might have been bleedng over. But the audio yesterday confirms them calling on 311.0.

 

[TinEar]

HAPPY NEW YEAR

I started a new thread for MilAir (Sticky Thread for MilAir III) since this one is bursting at the seams.

Let's close this one off and leave it for history if all of you don't mind.

 

[FirstsargeGeri]

So W. Virginia Military Freqs

Hi, I live in So W. Virginia ( right between Roanoke and Lynchburg) are there any active MilAir freqs in my area?
Whistler 1080, BCD996P2, Pro561