I been all over this site, looking for the answer if its legal to stream a live non encrypted police channel with my scanner online in Canada, but all i see is people saying yes and others saying no, in a circle around and around they go, with bits and pieces of legal jargon, supporting both sides, you would think this site could provide a definite yes or no answer, Im sure this site has figured out the legal aspects of this question, so please someone here, an owner whoever, please give me a straight yes or no answer
Streaming legalities
- Thread starter struct_dj
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robsterw
Member
From one Newf to another, I personally would refrain from streaming.
It's illegal to do so unless you have their permission. Which I kinda doubt you have at the moment.
No offense but I don't think it's worth the headaches man.
It's illegal to do so unless you have their permission. Which I kinda doubt you have at the moment.
No offense but I don't think it's worth the headaches man.
robsterw
Member
First off, I am not a lawyer. Nor do I play one on a internet forum.
But I get what your saying about being in the same room as the scanner.
However as of right now, the law still says it's illegal to rebroadcast.
From Radiocommunication Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. R-2
CanLII - Radiocommunication Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. R-2
Prohibition
(1.1) Except as prescribed, no person shall make use of or divulge a radio-based telephone communication
(a) if the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it was in Canada when the communication was made; and
(b) unless the originator, or the person intended by the originator to receive the communication consents to the use or divulgence.
Idem
(2) Except as prescribed, no person shall intercept and make use of, or intercept and divulge, any radiocommunication, except as permitted by the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it.
Exceptions
(3) Subsection (2) does not apply in respect of radiocommunication that consists of broadcasting, a subscription programming signal or a network feed.
1989, c. 17, s. 6; 1991, c. 11, s. 83; 1993, c. 40, s. 24.
Penalties
9.1 Every person who contravenes subsection 9(1.1) or (2) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable
(a) in the case of an individual, to a fine not exceeding twenty-five thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year, or to both; and
(b) in the case of a person other than an individual, to a fine not exceeding seventy-five thousand dollars.
1993, c. 40, s. 25.
Granted a long battle in court may or may not turn that around in your favor.
But I wouldn't want be the one to do it.
But I get what your saying about being in the same room as the scanner.
However as of right now, the law still says it's illegal to rebroadcast.
From Radiocommunication Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. R-2
CanLII - Radiocommunication Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. R-2
Prohibition
(1.1) Except as prescribed, no person shall make use of or divulge a radio-based telephone communication
(a) if the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it was in Canada when the communication was made; and
(b) unless the originator, or the person intended by the originator to receive the communication consents to the use or divulgence.
Idem
(2) Except as prescribed, no person shall intercept and make use of, or intercept and divulge, any radiocommunication, except as permitted by the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it.
Exceptions
(3) Subsection (2) does not apply in respect of radiocommunication that consists of broadcasting, a subscription programming signal or a network feed.
1989, c. 17, s. 6; 1991, c. 11, s. 83; 1993, c. 40, s. 24.
Penalties
9.1 Every person who contravenes subsection 9(1.1) or (2) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable
(a) in the case of an individual, to a fine not exceeding twenty-five thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year, or to both; and
(b) in the case of a person other than an individual, to a fine not exceeding seventy-five thousand dollars.
1993, c. 40, s. 25.
Granted a long battle in court may or may not turn that around in your favor.
But I wouldn't want be the one to do it.
n5ims
Member
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I believe that a straight "Yes" or "No" answer isn't really possible (as with many laws). Laws aren't generally as simple as "is it legal or is it illegal". Something can be specifically legal, specifically illegal, or (things harder to make out) not legal or not illegal. It's those with the "not" in front that are the issue here. In most cases, streaming scanner audio is neither specifically legal (no law specifically states that it is allowed) nor except in specific situations is it specifically illegal (no law specifically states it is not allowed).
Some laws are written to clearly make certain things illegal while others are written to make some things illegal while other similar things are not illegal while still others are clearly stated as being legal. (Don't ask me what the difference between something being legal and another thing being not illegal).
One example of something that's clearly illegal (quotes are from Canada's "Radiocommunication Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. R-2" http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/rsc-1985-c-r-2/latest/rsc-1985-c-r-2.html):
OK, pretty easy to understand, you can't legally decrypt encrypted communications or rebroadcast any you have decrypted. Based on this, you can't legally stream encrypted communications even if you somehow are able to decrypt them.
Now how about something not so easy like
OK, you can't divluge "radio-based telephone communication". What does this tell us. Well the easy part is that cell phone transmissions (along with cordless phone transmissions) are illegal. Now comes the hard part, what about phone patch traffic over a normal unencrypted public service radio system? Is it legal since the transmission would otherwise be legal to listen to and stream if it was just someone on a radio or since one side happens to be on the phone is it now illegal? Frankly, I don't have an answer to that question.
It could be argued that unlike normal protected telephone traffic this was not a "radio-based telephone communication" where both sides have a reasonable assumption of privacy but standard unencrypted radio traffic where there is no reasonable assumption of privacy.
That's why folks pay big bucks to lawyers to get these answers where a legal opinion may have some weight if legal action is taken. Opinions in an internet forum (regardless of how well meaning or thought out they may be) will have no such weight.
Some laws are written to clearly make certain things illegal while others are written to make some things illegal while other similar things are not illegal while still others are clearly stated as being legal. (Don't ask me what the difference between something being legal and another thing being not illegal).
One example of something that's clearly illegal (quotes are from Canada's "Radiocommunication Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. R-2" http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/rsc-1985-c-r-2/latest/rsc-1985-c-r-2.html):
OK, pretty easy to understand, you can't legally decrypt encrypted communications or rebroadcast any you have decrypted. Based on this, you can't legally stream encrypted communications even if you somehow are able to decrypt them.
Now how about something not so easy like
OK, you can't divluge "radio-based telephone communication". What does this tell us. Well the easy part is that cell phone transmissions (along with cordless phone transmissions) are illegal. Now comes the hard part, what about phone patch traffic over a normal unencrypted public service radio system? Is it legal since the transmission would otherwise be legal to listen to and stream if it was just someone on a radio or since one side happens to be on the phone is it now illegal? Frankly, I don't have an answer to that question.
It could be argued that unlike normal protected telephone traffic this was not a "radio-based telephone communication" where both sides have a reasonable assumption of privacy but standard unencrypted radio traffic where there is no reasonable assumption of privacy.
That's why folks pay big bucks to lawyers to get these answers where a legal opinion may have some weight if legal action is taken. Opinions in an internet forum (regardless of how well meaning or thought out they may be) will have no such weight.
So unless I have my own personnel legal team, don't bother streaming radio feeds over the internet, well then in my opinion, this site shouldn't encourage Canadians to stream scanners feeds to them unless they are willing to pay for his or hers legal costs, if these legal issues were to occur.
Struct_DJ, there's no way that this site can give you a definite answer to your question.
First of all, it's a US based site so most of the opinions are based on US law. There is a thread in the Live Audio forum discussing the legalities of broadcasting but it's all based on US law. I'm pretty sure that the site is not going to spend it's money on a Canadian lawyer to check out Canadian scanning law.
Secondly, most of the answers you are going to get come from people who have never had any sort of education in law. They're opinions and not worth much if you're standing in front of a judge.
If you want a real legal opinion, get yourself a real lawyer but it's probably not going to be cheap.
If you do decide to broadcast, you could always make the feed anonymous.
PeterGV
K1PGV
You're SERIOUSLY looking for legal advice from an open forum where most people post entirely anonymously?
Seriously? And if find out the advice you've gotten is wrong, what are you going to argue: Fred1397 on RR.COM *said* it was OK?
Hmmmm..
Peter
K1PGV
Seriously? And if find out the advice you've gotten is wrong, what are you going to argue: Fred1397 on RR.COM *said* it was OK?
Hmmmm..
Peter
K1PGV
Please do not cross post threads. One is enough. I have merged the threads. Thanks..
It doesn't.
That's why you do this on a volunteer basis. I'd suggest you look at the number of Canadian feeds that exist, and balance that with the number of legal cases that have resulted from those feeds.
Yes this site does, unless admins here are not part of this site, and how in the world could i cross reference legal issues with every feed thats ever been on here, if you have access to this information please let me know.
SERIOUSLY! this question was directed to owners of this site, not you.....read op
And Lindsay is still admittedly not a Canadian lawyer no matter how often you post 
Nice attitude.
ryan433pk
Member
Well, I'm going to stream Saskatoon fire and md ambulance anyway.
They can kick down my door if they want.
They can kick down my door if they want.
Mike if this site was to look into the legal aspect of this for us Canadians and it turned out we are protected to stream to this site, you would see alot of streams popping up, and alot more Canadians using this site, it would be in the interest of this site to invest in the answers we need, as this sites revenue is coming from its users, it would makes scene from a business aspect, unless they already know the answers which could lead to loss of revenue, makes one wonder.
I don't think this site has a lack of Canadian streams...
Big Telecom Internet Surveillance?
The Conservatives have put forward an invasive, anti-Internet set of “Lawful Access” policies that would allow Internet service providers to collect our personal information without court oversight. If these policies go through, officials will have real-time access to our online information
OpenMedia.ca | Engage, Educate, Empower
Current Canadian streamers may want to read this as well, anonymous streamer or not, it won't matter soon.
The Conservatives have put forward an invasive, anti-Internet set of “Lawful Access” policies that would allow Internet service providers to collect our personal information without court oversight. If these policies go through, officials will have real-time access to our online information
OpenMedia.ca | Engage, Educate, Empower
Current Canadian streamers may want to read this as well, anonymous streamer or not, it won't matter soon.
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