Suggestions/recommendations for short-range comms in the woods?

[mirrorshades]

Hi all.

I'm exploring the possibility of grabbing some HTs for coaches and course marshals for a school cross-country (running) team. Our courses usually loop through wooded parks, with a maximum point-to-point distance of maybe 2 miles or less. I'm licensed ham/gmrs so have some familiarity with options available but I wanted to see if anyone had opinions on FRS vs possibly MURS.

I know that in general, VHF tends to propagate better in wooded/hilly terrain (hello southwestern Pennsylvania) while UHF may suffer a bit. For up to 2 miles in the woods, does anyone have any experience with one vs the other? (I would not expect any of the coaches or support staff to get licensed, so something like 2m simplex or even higher-powered gmrs is out).

I don't really have a very easy way to do any comparison testing without purchasing any equipment, and I'd prefer to avoid "extra" purchases on the school's dime (although maybe I could buy new personal gear and just explain to my wife it's for "testing"...). Ideally some cheap FRS gear would fit the bill, but I'd hate to be the guy who recommended the purchase and then find out it doesn't get the coverage we need in the woods.

Anyway... all a very long way of saying I'm open to learning from the experiences of others. Any ideas?

(Oh also, we have used cell phones up to this point, which has not always worked reliably... hence my question for the upcoming year.)

Thanks!

 

[mikepdx]

You and another willing ham could simply conduct tests
throughout some representative areas using
VHF or UHF simplex with different power levels.

That would be an adequate test of range vs freq/power.
Then buy transceivers based on your findings.

As far as testing FRS radios and wasting the money for a test.
Take a look on craigslist -
It's rare that I don't see a pair of barely used Motorola talkabouts
for sale for next to nothing .

Much luck.

 

[mirrorshades]

You and another willing ham could simply conduct tests throughout some representative areas using VHF or UHF simplex with different power levels.

Could, unfortunately I'm not at all active in the local ham scene and don't really have anyone with already-owned gear that I could bug to go with me to test for a couple hours.

 

[eaf1956]

Howl like on Alaska Bush People....

 

[mmckenna]

Does your school have any radios or active licenses you could make use of?
FRS on it's own probably won't cut it.
GMRS would not be allowed unless each user family got their own license. A school won't be able to qualify under GMRS rules as the currently are.
MURS might be a good choice. 2 watts on VHF should do the trick. I use 2 meter VHF quite heavily in the wooded areas of northern California. 2 miles shouldn't be an issues unless there are some serious topographical challenges in the way.

I'd be surprised if the school/school district didn't have some sort of radio system or existing license you could use. A couple of basic VHF or UHF channels would be ideal for this.

 

[mirrorshades]

Does your school have any radios or active licenses you could make use of?
FRS on it's own probably won't cut it.
...
I'd be surprised if the school/school district didn't have some sort of radio system or existing license you could use. A couple of basic VHF or UHF channels would be ideal for this.

Actually I didn't mention, this is a private/catholic school so I doubt they have anything like that already in place. Good idea to ask though so I will definitely follow up!

MURS might be a good choice. 2 watts on VHF should do the trick. I use 2 meter VHF quite heavily in the wooded areas of northern California. 2 miles shouldn't be an issues unless there are some serious topographical challenges in the way.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. I suppose I could head out with my 2m gear and have a non-ham friend carry one in "listen only" mode just to test reception. There are some hilly spots but nothing too extreme.

Thanks!

 

[wa1nic]

I use both GMRS and Commercial VHF radios on my farm. The Commercial VHF frequency is very close to the MURS frequencies. Hence, I have experience with both.


MURS will do a better job in the woods than hand held GMRS and certainly better than the lower powered FRS.

Hills will substantially shorten the range of either.

The only thing I like about the GMRS stuff is that the radios are typically small and will slide into a jacket pocket with ease. My base station is a
4 watt GMRS with a fairly high gain, roof mounted antenna. I can typically get about a 1 mile range, but there is a hill in one direction that, if I go over it, the signal dies quickly. Handheld to handheld range is maybe 1/2 mile in the woods.

If I want more range, I use the commercial frequency. I have a 300 watt ERP base station - 9 dbd antenna mounted on a mast. The portable units are commercial ICOMS running 5 watts. Typical range is maybe 3 miles through the woods, but beyond previously mentioned hill it does fade somewhat fast.... not quite so fast as the GMRS radios, but fast non-the-less. Handheld to handheld is maybe 1.5 to 2 miles through the woods.