Summit County Ohio ....."New" problem, for me !!

[k8zgw]

I have recently moved from Twinsburg to Macedonia, and gained about 150 feet of ground elevation ( from 1000 to 1150 )
I now find some dispatchers a bit garbled . I have reduced the antenna on my GRE scanner to a very short antenna, magnet-ed to the top of my scanner.
If I go smaller, I likely will not be able to hear the Cleveland system ..

Any suggestions ?

thanks,

Don

 

[belvdr]

Even though you gained elevation, did you gain obstructions as well? Also, if you're listening to MARCS, it's quite possible your scanner is receiving multiple sites and that's the issue.

In that case, the real fix is a device that can handle LSM (i.e. Unication or SDS).

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Summit County operates on a cluster of simulcast towers on Ohio MARCS. What you are likely facing is a well discussed issue known as simulcast distortion. Looking at the site map below you're likely within listening range of two or more simulcasting towers and therefore would be much better off monitoring this system using a Uniden SDS100 or SDS200. There are a number of simulcast mitigation methods mentioned in the wiki I linked but they work in very few cases.

I have reduced the antenna on my GRE scanner to a very short antenna, magnet-ed to the top of my scanner.

Was any improvement noticed?

 

[Swipesy]

I have recently moved from Twinsburg to Macedonia, and gained about 150 feet of ground elevation ( from 1000 to 1150 )
I now find some dispatchers a bit garbled . I have reduced the antenna on my GRE scanner to a very short antenna, magnet-ed to the top of my scanner.
If I go smaller, I likely will not be able to hear the Cleveland system ..

Any suggestions ?

thanks,

Don

Don, depending on where in Macedonia you are now located you will find that the corridor on Rt 82 from I-271 to the Brecksville line is RF hell. I and several of my friends have tested PSR-800 (Legacy) SDR 100 and 200's, Unication G5 and Motorola official MARCS programmed radios in that area. Except for the Unication and Motorola reception on other radios are almost all garble or deaf. There are several cell and micowave towers along that way plus several MARCS Summit towers competing. GCRCN can be heard best in that corridor.

 

[Jphila20]

I have recently moved from Twinsburg to Macedonia, and gained about 150 feet of ground elevation ( from 1000 to 1150 )
I now find some dispatchers a bit garbled . I have reduced the antenna on my GRE scanner to a very short antenna, magnet-ed to the top of my scanner.
If I go smaller, I likely will not be able to hear the Cleveland system ..

Any suggestions ?

thanks,

Don

I live in southern Lorain county and use two directional antenna just for Cleveland. One is 700 and the other is 800MHz. Its about 30 miles between the Justice Center and me. I believe you and I are in just the right spot for picking up the Justice Center. We both have no MARCS towers between out locations. I get perfect reception. Both antenna are discontinued, but I found this one for $50.00 that might work. https://www.amazon.com/weBoost-Outd...mzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

 

[k8zgw]

Don, depending on where in Macedonia you are now located you will find that the corridor on Rt 82 from I-271 to the Brecksville line is RF hell. I and several of my friends have tested PSR-800 (Legacy) SDR 100 and 200's, Unication G5 and Motorola official MARCS programmed radios in that area. Except for the Unication and Motorola reception on other radios are almost all garble or deaf. There are several cell and micowave towers along that way plus several MARCS Summit towers competing. GCRCN can be heard best in that corridor.

Bill,
I moved just (1mile) North of 82, between Chamberlain and Shepard.
Now almost 1150 ASL .

 

[Swipesy]

Don, Dead Pan Alley. When I come across Rt 82 from Aurora to Brecksville radio traffic is almost non existent from Rt 82 & Cochran to just before Brecksville. As noted before I and 2 others spent considerable time working with a fellow scanner hobbyest in Sagamore Hills who could not hear anything on his scanner. We also spoke with Macedonia fire chief about their issues in that area. Fire has no issues as was proven by on of my fellow testers who is a public safety person. Our scanners are just not up to par with Unication and professional radios in overcoming RF in that corridor.

John

 

[wa8pyr]

Don, Dead Pan Alley. When I come across Rt 82 from Aurora to Brecksville radio traffic is almost non existent from Rt 82 & Cochran to just before Brecksville. As noted before I and 2 others spent considerable time working with a fellow scanner hobbyest in Sagamore Hills who could not hear anything on his scanner. We also spoke with Macedonia fire chief about their issues in that area. Fire has no issues as was proven by on of my fellow testers who is a public safety person. Our scanners are just not up to par with Unication and professional radios in overcoming RF in that corridor.

John

Best bet in that situation is a bandpass filter that will only pass the 700/800 MHz band (ideally, 760 to 861 MHz). Part of the problem may be intermod; that's tougher to pin down, although a bandpass filter would still help.

 

[N8WCP]

Don - your previous QTH was in the Twinsburg "bowl" so you were shadowed from hearing the other sites. At your new QTH you're hearing multiple sites. Might try attenuating the signal to possibly eliminate the other sites. If that doesn't solve it, a scanner upgrade is in your future.

 

[Swipesy]

Don - your previous QTH was in the Twinsburg "bowl" so you were shadowed from hearing the other sites. At your new QTH you're hearing multiple sites. Might try attenuating the signal to possibly eliminate the other sites. If that doesn't solve it, a scanner upgrade is in your future.

N8WCP, you do not understand the situation Don is living in. As I stated previously my friends and I tested the corridor that Don is talking about with Motorola, Unication, Whistler and Uniden SDS radios. The only radios that will work in that corridor are Motorola professional radios and Unications. Don cannot lockout simulcast towers - it is what it is. Tom Swisher has the only possible band-aide solution beyond Don buying a Unication.

 

[N8WCP]

N8WCP, you do not understand the situation Don is living in. As I stated previously my friends and I tested the corridor that Don is talking about with Motorola, Unication, Whistler and Uniden SDS radios. The only radios that will work in that corridor are Motorola professional radios and Unications. Don cannot lockout simulcast towers - it is what it is. Tom Swisher has the only possible band-aide solution beyond Don buying a Unication.

I would expect professional grade equipment to outperform a consumer product. I'm surprised the SDS isn't working given reports from friends who use them in overlap areas in Summit. Don's previous QTH provided isolation from the other sites that comprise the Summit cell, his new locations does not. A filter is not going to solve the issue if "simulcast distortion" is the issue. I understand he can't lockout individual sites in the cell but attenuation may reduce the signal level of the other sites enough to make reception of the Twinsburg site acceptable to his scanner.

 

[Swipesy]

My friends used their SDS 100 and SDS 200 and they performed marginally. They did not keep up with the pro radio or the Unication. The issue in the corridor is more than simulcast. There are at least a dozen Cell/Microwave Towers along the corridor. All of the testers have 30 + years experience with scanners and professional radios. We used different settings (attenuation On/Off; Tower Lock outs from neighboring counties; lockout of Summit county towers, etc). The area is just not scanner friendly.

 

[k8zgw]

Bill, The "solution" I have found, less antenna, which seems to work OK.
Mike, N8WCP, also has much experience ... have known him for about 40 years.
If he wants to tell you his "daytime" job, you would understand he knows what he speaks.. ;-}

My old location, behind Twinsburg city hall was at just about 1000 feet ASL, while my new location is at 1150, and l.5 miles from the
Chamberlain tower, I am about 15 feet lower ,but with the antennas at almost 300' I doubt that makes much of a difference.
With this tiny antenna ( BNC 2.5 inch HT antenna) I can still hear the 52.68 repeater ....

Don

 

[wa8pyr]

I'm surprised the SDS isn't working given reports from friends who use them in overlap areas in Summit. Don's previous QTH provided isolation from the other sites that comprise the Summit cell, his new locations does not. A filter is not going to solve the issue if "simulcast distortion" is the issue.

The guys in that area can correct me if I'm wrong, but based on their testing it sounds like the issue is the overall high level of RF saturation in the corridor in question desensing the scanner, rather than just a simulcast issue. I had similar issues 'back in the day' in certain areas of virtually every major metro area in Ohio, and while those issues have diminished with the move to 700/800 MHz, the problem is still present to a certain extent.

In the OPs previous location, he was probably somewhat 'shaded' from a lot of the RF and his scanner performed OK, but in the new location with greater elevation, he's right in the middle of it.

As we all know, scanners have notoriously wide front ends, so their ability to deal with very high RF saturation is limited; band-specific radios will naturally perform better because they have much better filtering on the receiver. So, if desense is the problem, attenuation can help to a point, but a bandpass filter specific to the 700/800 MHz band is the most likely solution, in order to block out most of the offending RF.