SVRCS Question Thread

[ea1321]

County Parks Control 12 will be encrypted once the switch is made from VHF to SVRCS. Since the Rangers and Parks Deputies run warrant / license checks on people, it falls under the DOJ requirement. Parks Maintenance and other non-sworn staff won't have access to that channel anymore either, so a new solution will have to be worked out for those folks to still have communication in an emergency.

APX 8000's / 8500's for Rangers and staff that still need to communicate with CAL-FIRE, APX 4000's for everyone else who just needs SVRCS access.

That's so strange. When I talked to a colleague over at County Comm. The issue was that deputies and rangers were running into officer safety problems on the digital side of things. For example, when deputies and rangers are out at Mt. Madonna in the Gilroy area, they have to keep going back to their vehicles to get out on the air. The portables that they have now are analog and are the Motorola XTS series. However, it seems that the supervisors are using the experimental portables.

On another note, does anyone know if Mid Peninsula Rangers are going to make the switch? They have Law Enforcement powers and are dispatched from Mountain View PD. I know they go from Santa Clara and San Mateo counties, (Lick Observatory to Windy Hill). I know from experience, that this agency works with all different agencies in the area as well.

 

[Deadshot42]

That's so strange. When I talked to a colleague over at County Comm. The issue was that deputies and rangers were running into officer safety problems on the digital side of things. For example, when deputies and rangers are out at Mt. Madonna in the Gilroy area, they have to keep going back to their vehicles to get out on the air. The portables that they have now are analog and are the Motorola XTS series. However, it seems that the supervisors are using the experimental portables.

On another note, does anyone know if Mid Peninsula Rangers are going to make the switch? They have Law Enforcement powers and are dispatched from Mountain View PD. I know they go from Santa Clara and San Mateo counties, (Lick Observatory to Windy Hill). I know from experience, that this agency works with all different agencies in the area as well.

County Parks is testing the new radios and looking for dead spots on the new channels, but so far the traditional dead spots have been solved, even for portables. I'm sure new ones will pop up, but the additional repeaters built for the system solved some of the issues around Uvas Canyon, Casa Loma, Hicks Road, and Stevens Canyon.

MidPen is not switching to SVRCS and will be staying on their own radio system. I did see though on their website that they have a consultant evaluating their system and making recommendations for upgrades, including the possibility of going to P25 digital on their current VHF bands.

 

[ea1321]

Does anyone know if CAL-FIRE is making the switch over to digital? I just saw some CF firefighters carrying APX radios. I know they used to use BK radios. Maybe it’s for Santa Clara County?

 

[mmckenna]

Does anyone know if CAL-FIRE is making the switch over to digital? I just saw some CF firefighters carrying APX radios. I know they used to use BK radios. Maybe it’s for Santa Clara County?

Highly unlikely that Cal-Fire will switch to digital on VHF, too many interoperability issues with that, too much equipment to swap out right now. Eventually, probably, but not for a long time.
It's known that in some areas they have access to regional systems, so having the ability to interoperate with local agencies on digital systems is happening.

 

[ea1321]

Makes sense now. I know they often hop on SJFD and GFD’s channel. Thanks!

 

[mmckenna]

Makes sense now. I know they often hop on SJFD and GFD’s channel. Thanks!

Yeah, and as time goes on, it's no longer possible to get analog only radios in the category of "public safety". So as radios wear out, the only option is to replace them with digital capable radios. Kenwood no longer sells any analog only radios above the lowest tier/entry level stuff, and even those are disappearing. Last bunch of radios I purchased for work were all digital capable. Most of their 'analog only' radios are actually digital capable with the digital function not active.

I'm sure in my lifetime CalFire will go digital, but there's a ton of equipment that would need to be swapped out. Their mobiles/portables will go that way just by attrition. Getting all the repeaters and backhaul swapped out will take time. The last few CalFire radio sites I've been to were all still running older Daniels analog repeaters with analog link radios. Eventually those will all get replaced.

 

[Deadshot42]

The only CDF units that I heard are on SVRCS are the contract crews for South SC County Fire District, since they are also Morgan Hill Fire. The regular CAL FIRE units are staying on VHF only. The local fire agencies got multi band radios and kept some of their VHF channels to cross patch so they can communicate with CAL FIRE, either by switching to CDF channels or activating the patch between their trunked and VHF channels to let CDF talk on local agency channels.

Unrelated, County Parks has a target date of June 28th for the switch

 

[ea1321]

Well, it looks like Santa Clara County Parks has finally made the switch. I had my radio on since 0845hrs and the radio has been dead silent.

 

[Deadshot42]

The switch for County Parks was made June 30. Control 12 is now encrypted LE only. There's a new channel, Parks Gen, for the non sworn staff (maintenance / kiosk / volunteers) to communicate with the Rangers and County Comm.

 

[ea1321]

Do you happen to have that frequency?

 

[Deadshot42]

I'll try to find the ID. Parks Gen and two other tac channels were added late, so I don't know if they added new channel ID's or repurposed other ones.

 

[ea1321]

Okay sounds good. I noticed that Mid Pen Rangers VHF frequency has been silent? Does anyone know if they are making the switch over to digital?

 

[officer_415]

Is Santa Clara Sheriff still multi-selecting the old VHF channels at all?

 

[nokoa3116]

Is Santa Clara Sheriff still multi-selecting the old VHF channels at all?

Nope. They completely turned that off, and also ranger channel is now digital only also.

 

[officer_415]

Nope. They completely turned that off, and also ranger channel is now digital only also.

Thanks. Are Milpitas PD and San Jose Evergreen PD still unencrypted? And is Gilroy Fire VHF still active?

 

[ea1321]

Thanks. Are Milpitas PD and San Jose Evergreen PD still unencrypted? And is Gilroy Fire VHF still active?

MPD and County Parks went encrypted a couple of weeks ago. SJECCD is digital, however all of there transmissions are coming from the CSO's and Meter Maids. I have yet to hear a unit key up or get dispatched to anything. As of a few days ago, GFD is still active on analog. I do believe they are operating on both analog and digital.

 

[scootle]

A bit of a newbie here, but this is lots of really good info.

Is there a good tutorial or write-up out there on how to use a SDR like a RTL-SDR with SDRTrunk (or similar) to monitor the unencrypted SVRCS traffic?

A friend thought there was a FOIA request (or whatever) from the local media to obtain decryption keys for the public safety agencies, but I have no idea if that is true or not. i.e. Is LE legally allowed to be completely closed off from public access via encrypted comms -- seems like there are some transparency challenges vs. the obvious operational concerns that CA DOJ was trying to address.

Thanks!

 

[wski]

A bit of a newbie here, but this is lots of really good info.

Is there a good tutorial or write-up out there on how to use a SDR like a RTL-SDR with SDRTrunk (or similar) to monitor the unencrypted SVRCS traffic?

A friend thought there was a FOIA request (or whatever) from the local media to obtain decryption keys for the public safety agencies, but I have no idea if that is true or not. i.e. Is LE legally allowed to be completely closed off from public access via encrypted comms -- seems like there are some transparency challenges vs. the obvious operational concerns that CA DOJ was trying to address.

Thanks!

No media company or any citizen for that matter can legally obtain the encryption keys. FOIA and CPRA have provisions that prevent the release of confidential, sensitive information like passwords, SSN, encryption keys, etc. Even if they were allowed its not as simple as plugging the key into the scanner, you would need a special device called a Key Variable Loader (KVL).

 

[mmckenna]

A friend thought there was a FOIA request (or whatever) from the local media to obtain decryption keys for the public safety agencies, but I have no idea if that is true or not.

No. Encryption keys are not given out.
What some agencies have been doing is allowing legit/established news media ( NOT Bob's Youtube Channel of "news", or any person that demands it) to purchase/lease/rent a radio from the agency that is set up with specific channels/talk groups, receive only, and the appropriate encryption keys to hear the radio traffic that the agency wants the news media to hear.
The agency still controls the radio. There's a lot of paperwork that goes on between agency/news media about appropriate use and what can result in removing access.
The agency can switch encryption keys any time they feel like it using Over The Air Rekey (OTAR) and choose to include or not include the media held radios.

While not all agencies use OTAR, it is a way of controlling encryption. If someone leaks an encryption key, they can send out new keys to specific radios. If a radio gets lost/stolen, it can be blocked from trunked systems, the rest of the radios rekeyed and life goes on, etc.

No one is going to get encryption keys by filing a freedom of information act request. About the best you could do is to get transcripts or copies of recorded radio traffic.

i.e. Is LE legally allowed to be completely closed off from public access via encrypted comms -- seems like there are some transparency challenges vs. the obvious operational concerns that CA DOJ was trying to address.

Absolutely. No matter what scanner owners think, there is no God given right that we all have real time access to all public safety communications.
If transparency is a big concern, the right way to do that is to approach your city council and express your concerns. Use FOIA. Talk to the Chief, do ride alongs, any number of things that get you more visibility into their operations. But being 'given' encryption keys isn't going to be one of them. That defeats the entire purpose of encryption.

 

[nokoa3116]

A bit of a newbie here, but this is lots of really good info.

Is there a good tutorial or write-up out there on how to use a SDR like a RTL-SDR with SDRTrunk (or similar) to monitor the unencrypted SVRCS traffic?

A friend thought there was a FOIA request (or whatever) from the local media to obtain decryption keys for the public safety agencies, but I have no idea if that is true or not. i.e. Is LE legally allowed to be completely closed off from public access via encrypted comms -- seems like there are some transparency challenges vs. the obvious operational concerns that CA DOJ was trying to address.

Thanks!

I have been in contact with most of Santa Clara County Law Enforcement Agencies, as well as San Francisco Police Department, and all had declined to give exclusive access, such as a decryption license to the news media. Stating that it would violate the CA DOJ mandate giving media access to the information they are required to now protect... No media agency received special access in the Santa Clara County to any encrypted radio talkgroups. As mentioned by others some departments in other cities and states had previously offered a path for the media by providing them with a decryption license. The department would program a radio loaded with the encryption keys for the allowed talkgroups, and as mentioned could be remotely removed, or inhibited. I heard that the contracts were quite demanding, and that information obtained from encrypted radio chatter cannot be used at all for publication, nor should it ever be, unless it comes from other or official sources. As well as several other requirements that many had been unhappy with. I doubt if any department in California will be providing this path any time soon, some agencies were looking at other solutions, but CLETS have not been responsive to their questions, so only time will tell.

Also no SDR software is currently out of the box capable of supporting an encryption key for AES-256 for P25 TDMA.

SDRTrunk is very straight forward, a YouTube search should yield some promising results on how to set it up.