The Definitive DSD+ Passive Digital Monitor Thread #2

[ArloG]

Looks like my previous thread was closed.
After about 2 years or so I was finally able to get P25 voice with DSD+. I've thrown my arms up in the air and gave up several times.
Nothing but a peep of broken voice ever.
My initial install of DSD+. Just the free Windows version. Never gave a hint of voice. I used an RSP2 and read and read and got the relative database files, setup .bat files.
It would trunk. But never anything but broken fragments of speech.
So with a Fastlane subscription thinking it would make magic happen. Kind of a bummer.

Supposedly from the tutorials with discriminator out, using an SDR application to pipe audio with VB Cable or another audio routing program In a non-trunked config.
All you need to do is have the basic version of DSD+ and base files. A little reading in the various notes files says you also need a few other files.
With that I could never get decoded audio. A web search, YouTube videos, poking around RR. I gave up a few times. A screen full of scrolling text with occasional hints of voice. But none to be heard. In cases where broken audio was heard. Trying different RF gain, audio levels. No improvements.
And that was mainly using my IC-R8600.

So. The past few days I took the latest Fastlane download. Added base files. Added others covered in the notes files. Started from scratch.
Using HDSDR with 12.5-13 kHz FM bandwidth. Volume set at middle. All audio device settings at 24 bit 48,000 kHz. In very short while.
I was surprised and very amazed that I got P25p1 voice. A little broken. A few tweaks of RF gain and volume and voice got to be very steady.
Did I say amazing? After a few years of on and off trying I just thought it was the area I live in.
Then I was able to find DMR voice.
And logged and saved more and more frequencies. But so far no NXDN.

I would like to ask for suggestions if any of the various files within DSD+ need to be edited to make discriminator or audio piped in from an SDR application .
If any editing of those files are necessary to get decoded voice to come in better.
Occasionally I see P25p1 and P25p2 freqs. that have NXDN indicated in the packet window. Is that possible or something I overlooked?
Can or are multiple protocols be sent on the same frequency?

I'm receiving voice on control channels. Something I never expected.

If there are any files, screen shots, etc. that I could post to better understand the workings of DSD+. Or how to make it work better in a non-trunked configuration. I would really appreciate suggestions. Because it really is like I'm starting all over again now.

Just please be kind and helpful. Thanks for that.

 

[mtindor]

Looks like my previous thread was closed.
After about 2 years or so I was finally able to get P25 voice with DSD+. I've thrown my arms up in the air and gave up several times.
Nothing but a peep of broken voice ever.
My initial install of DSD+. Just the free Windows version. Never gave a hint of voice. I used an RSP2 and read and read and got the relative database files, setup .bat files.
It would trunk. But never anything but broken fragments of speech.
So with a Fastlane subscription thinking it would make magic happen. Kind of a bummer.

Supposedly from the tutorials with discriminator out, using an SDR application to pipe audio with VB Cable or another audio routing program In a non-trunked config.
All you need to do is have the basic version of DSD+ and base files. A little reading in the various notes files says you also need a few other files.
With that I could never get decoded audio. A web search, YouTube videos, poking around RR. I gave up a few times. A screen full of scrolling text with occasional hints of voice. But none to be heard. In cases where broken audio was heard. Trying different RF gain, audio levels. No improvements.
And that was mainly using my IC-R8600.

So. The past few days I took the latest Fastlane download. Added base files. Added others covered in the notes files. Started from scratch.
Using HDSDR with 12.5-13 kHz FM bandwidth. Volume set at middle. All audio device settings at 24 bit 48,000 kHz. In very short while.
I was surprised and very amazed that I got P25p1 voice. A little broken. A few tweaks of RF gain and volume and voice got to be very steady.
Did I say amazing? After a few years of on and off trying I just thought it was the area I live in.
Then I was able to find DMR voice.
And logged and saved more and more frequencies. But so far no NXDN.

I would like to ask for suggestions if any of the various files within DSD+ need to be edited to make discriminator or audio piped in from an SDR application .
If any editing of those files are necessary to get decoded voice to come in better.
Occasionally I see P25p1 and P25p2 freqs. that have NXDN indicated in the packet window. Is that possible or something I overlooked?
Can or are multiple protocols be sent on the same frequency?

I'm receiving voice on control channels. Something I never expected.

If there are any files, screen shots, etc. that I could post to better understand the workings of DSD+. Or how to make it work better in a non-trunked configuration. I would really appreciate suggestions. Because it really is like I'm starting all over again now.

Just please be kind and helpful. Thanks for that.

Glad you got it working. But you don't seem to ever search the forums for the volumes of experience already posted by others. You seem to want everyone to guide you from scratch or repeat things. Adding to your posts that you want people just to be kind and helpful isn't likely going to get you anywhere. When somebody offers help, they expect you take the good with the bad.

There are no files you could/would modify to allow you to really tweak things. FMP* + DSDPlus will allow you to monitor simulcast systems without issue. If you are using audio from somewhere else and piping it in over a VB cable, you likely will never be able to monitor a simulcast control channel or voice channel _and_ achieve the optimal output that you would with FMP* + DSDPlus. Part of DSDPlus supporting LSM / C-QPSK is the requirement that FMP* be used as the input.

You should only [normally] be getting voice calls while parked on a control channel if you are listening to DMR, or if you are listening to the rare P25 system that has some single-frequency trunking going on (don't quote me on the P25). There are single freq NXDN trunked systems to, but for those if a voice call occurs the control channel data stops until the voice call is completed.

And, aside from keeping a reasonably tight bandwidth (which may differ depending up the signal type being monitored), make sure that you do not have any audio filtering / deemphasis enabled in your SDR software.

 

[slicerwizard]

So you have an SDRPlay RSP2? But you don't use FMPP? And no raw audio files provided so others can assist...

 

[ArloG]

So you have an SDRPlay RSP2? But you don't use FMPP? And no raw audio files provided so others can assist...

A little delay. Bad snow, downed trees, power off...then on...then off. Life.
Slicerwizard. The RSP2 will come in to use shortly. At the least I need N type to SMA adapters. An antenna switch will be a cool thing too.
DSD+ is populating with .wav files as time progresses. And logging freqs. into HDSDR. I'm finding around 7 with voice right now.
If you look at mtindor's first paragraph. This is exactly why RR at times seems to be aggressive.
As I learn, it's nice to convey it to others like your good old "Elmer" would.
Yes. The forums have and are being searched. Using my query in the search option here, browsing the different posts.
Nope. Don't really want nor need a person to giude me or give me anything at all. Just share knowledge.
If you have an idea of what a person is asking and you know similar subjects. Why not just post the link to it.
If anyone has doubts of what is receptive as help. Even though it may have been covered a gazillion times in other posts.
Why not head over to satelliteguys. My same user name is there. Tell me what you think. Ok?

Please consider me a new one at scanning and receiving digital voice. Some questions that are asked may seem stupid to you.
To me, they are quite well thought out. Deal?
I'm a bit confused. Read the notes, read the text files. Doing it.
This, from mtindor:
"Part of DSDPlus supporting LSM / C-QPSK is the requirement that FMP* be used as the input".
You may 100% understand it but then on my end from the text files within DSD+ FMP.txt file right at the beginning and not expanding on it further down:
"FMP is a simple RTL-SDR dongle tuner / NFM demodulator:"
Correct me. I searched. Okay, FMP is for RTL dongles. But still. Demodulator I know. Does this mean that even though it's not documented clearly that DSD+ by itself does not demodulate QPSK? And an FMPx is mandatory? My take is that FMPx is just your tailored tuner/demod. and scanner module for the radio du jour that receives data from DSD+ to tell it what to do.

Interesting that DSD+ is somehow streaming tuning information to the FMPx modules. It would be interensting to snoop the datastream to see how it is doing that. Wondering if it would be binary or plain text.

"You should only [normally] be getting voice calls while parked on a control channel if you are listening to DMR, or if you are listening to the rare P25 system that has some single-frequency trunking going on (don't quote me on the P25)".
Yeah. I was surprised and a bit amazed also. I figured monitoring control channels would give me the info of where to sit on a frequency that was listed as a VC. Then all of a sudden I heard voice on it and after a few seconds of volume and RF gain tweaks. Got a good stream of voice.
I do have all protocols selected. Perhaps a reason why P25 would have text telling of NXDN also?
And. You should be happy that I didn't ask for the fish and went to the FCC and looked for emissions for those frequencies.

"And, aside from keeping a reasonably tight bandwidth (which may differ depending up the signal type being monitored), make sure that you do not have any audio filtering / deemphasis enabled in your SDR software".
Yes. Using my bandwidth slider to vary IF bandwidth as instructed for the various modes. P25, +DMR.
Audio bandwidth is a question. I'm not seeing any data that exceeds a few kHz. I have been using it opened up to around 8 kHz or so.

Slicerwizard. Raw recorded I/Q files? Dot wav files? Both?
Now that I am getting voice, grabbing those are a breeze.

I can take bee stings and a kik in the butt. Kinda' got used to it here. Still don't make it right. The dudes with closets full of scanners over the eons they have been in the hobby don't necessarily mean everyone here has the same.

 

[slicerwizard]

If you look at mtindor's first paragraph. This is exactly why RR at times seems to be aggressive.

If I understand correctly, it's been years and you're still at square one with DSD+ and still asking beginner questions. That frustration you're feeling? We're feeling it as well...

I'm a bit confused. Read the notes, read the text files. Doing it.
This, from mtindor:
"Part of DSDPlus supporting LSM / C-QPSK is the requirement that FMP* be used as the input".
You may 100% understand it but then on my end from the text files within DSD+ FMP.txt file right at the beginning and not expanding on it further down:
"FMP is a simple RTL-SDR dongle tuner / NFM demodulator:"
Correct me. I searched. Okay, FMP is for RTL dongles. But still. Demodulator I know. Does this mean that even though it's not documented clearly that DSD+ by itself does not demodulate QPSK? And an FMPx is mandatory? My take is that FMPx is just your tailored tuner/demod. and scanner module for the radio du jour that receives data from DSD+ to tell it what to do.

QPSK is a type of RF modulation. DSD+ does not deal with RF. DSD+ uses demodulated audio only.

QSPK demodulation has to be done before DSD+ gets involved and whatever you're using (HDSDR?) ain't doing it.

PSK demodulation is done by the FMPx programs.


The Notes.txt file covers how you're supposed to do it, but I take it that to date, you haven't done that:

Using DSD+ with supported SDR devices
...
The FMPP program is used with SDRPlay RSP2s. Your RSP2 serial number(s) should be added
to the FMPP.cfg file.


Single-dongle monitoring:

To use a single device, run the 1R.bat file to start DSD+,
then run the appropriate batch file for your device:
...
SDRPLay: FMPP-CC.bat

That's all there is to it, but instead, here we are, years later, still trying to get you to just go with the program...

Interesting that DSD+ is somehow streaming tuning information to the FMPx modules. It would be interensting to snoop the datastream to see how it is doing that. Wondering if it would be binary or plain text.

CC DSD+ writes .traffic files in the DSD+ folder. The metadata in the file names can be used to tune whatever device you want.

Slicerwizard. Raw recorded I/Q files? Dot wav files? Both?

Raw source audio. Look in the DSD+ Input menu.

 

[ArloG]

If I understand correctly, it's been years and you're still at square one with DSD+ and still asking beginner questions. That frustration you're feeling? We're feeling it as well...


QPSK is a type of RF modulation. DSD+ does not deal with RF. DSD+ uses demodulated audio only.

QSPK demodulation has to be done before DSD+ gets involved and whatever you're using (HDSDR?) ain't doing it.

PSK demodulation is done by the FMPx programs.


The Notes.txt file covers how you're supposed to do it, but I take it that to date, you haven't done that:

Using DSD+ with supported SDR devices
...
The FMPP program is used with SDRPlay RSP2s. Your RSP2 serial number(s) should be added
to the FMPP.cfg file.


Single-dongle monitoring:

To use a single device, run the 1R.bat file to start DSD+,
then run the appropriate batch file for your device:
...
SDRPLay: FMPP-CC.bat

That's all there is to it, but instead, here we are, years later, still trying to get you to just go with the program...


CC DSD+ writes .traffic files in the DSD+ folder. The metadata in the file names can be used to tune whatever device you want.


Raw source audio. Look in the DSD+ Input menu.

#87. That's me. Nobody's stupid if they ask the right questions and are still confused.
Thanks, Slice!

Help Correctly Aligning My 1.2M Channel Master Dish and moteck H-H180 motor - Linux Satellite Support Community

Hi People so i need Help Correctly Aligning My 1.2M Channel Master Dish and moteck H-H180 motor, if you can help that be great thanks, my location is kings lynn norfolk (for long and lat), so my 1.2m CM (Channel Master) satellite dish is ground mounted…

www.linuxsat-support.com

 

[DaveNF2G]

If you are trying to monitor a trunked system with a single dongle, then you should have DSD+ running as either CC monitor or Combination CC/VC monitor.

I have found that CC Monitor works better for me when trying to map out LCN/LSN on a Capacity Plus system.

 

[ArloG]

Hi guys. Getting back in the swing of things from being away.
So. I've gotten around 10 voice channels to decode using my R8600. All were received using HDSDR piped through VB cable and into DSD+ Fastlane. P25p1 and P2, +DMR seems to be the ones I can get voice on. No luck with either NXDN modes.
After I logged the voice frequencies I set the receiver to USB IF out. Tuned it to VC with frequent activity. I was able to get them to decode eventually but with a lot of tweaking of settings. Just getting the status screen to scroll was a bear. Lots of tweaks. SDR/VB cable is tons easier.

Finally got my SMA to N Type adapters. And hooked up my RSP2.
I picked for info from posts here to get it setup. It will take a bit. Things come up. Mind you brand new at that like tons of others.
And wont burden anyone with questions asked previously and answered. That's what the search function is for.

Single dongle trunking is going to be a task. I haven't subbed to the DB. Trying to figure out if using logs from DSD+ when using my R8600 would help make a bare minimum file or set of files to try trunking.
I can get voice. But totally confused with tuning the RSP2 using the keyboard.
Screen shots follow later when I can sit and chill at home.

The freakin' FMPP tuning window is confusing. Two superimposed waveforms. Searching here doesn;t reveal what is what.
If I manually tune using the left-right arrow keys. There is a small vertical line on the left and a wider window towards the center.
If I set DSD+ my .bat file to open on 152.773 MHz. I don't see the frequency centered in the window.
I need to use the arrow keys to find "a frequency". But mousing over the center of the screen with the....IF bandwidth?....gap.
I know it's most probably 155.773 because it happens to be the local fire/ambulance freq. and is active with voice.
Nowhere in the entire window do I see that frequency. And especially in the gap. where there is activity. It displays something funky like for example 155.7932.....

So if anyone ponders over this rant and thinks "Oh, That!" and can post a tip, a link here. Much appreciated.
I'll grab some screen shots and and whatever anyone would think is a good idea.
I was messing around with sdrtrunk. I could not get the stable release to work. Java, path entries, SDRPlay API versions.
Sdrtrunk doesn't work with the latest API that SDRPlay needs? Jesus Christ!
I ended up using the unstable nightly. Ba-da-bow. Ba-da-bing. Up and at least seeing the RSP2in a few minutes.
Then I started reading about all of the crap it takes to make it work. Workarounds of manually grabbing frequencies, etc. to stick in the farious locations.

Got interested in unitrunker. Couldn't even find a download on the page that is referenced here. Thought it was my browser. Nope.
No link on the page that would take me to a Windows download. Poke and search and poke and search to finally get to a download page. And IT wouldn't install with the one and only .msi installer.
So. Off to the great wide web to find a msi to exe converter. Try again. It installed finally. The msi installer.....run as administrator, all that crap. Nope. Convert it to an exe file and success. But I ain't even trying it until getting a grasp of that confusing as hell FMPP tuner screen. Christ!

 

[a417]

Got interested in unitrunker. Couldn't even find a download on the page that is referenced here. Thought it was my browser. Nope.
No link on the page that would take me to a Windows download. Poke and search and poke and search to finally get to a download page. And IT wouldn't install with the one and only .msi installer.
So. Off to the great wide web to find a msi to exe converter. Try again. It installed finally. The msi installer.....run as administrator, all that crap. Nope. Convert it to an exe file and success. But I ain't even trying it until getting a grasp of that confusing as hell FMPP tuner screen. Christ!

hallmark of a borked up windows installation, usually with msiexec.exe not running the backround as a service - as it should be. literally one of the only things that i've ever had sfc.exe /scannow ever fix correctly. Not unitrunker's problem, it was something on your computer.

 

[ArloG]

Thanks for that. Strange. After your 'borked' statement I picked a few .msi installers. puTTy64 being one. Both launched w/o a hitch.
Of course a very occasional sfc.exe /scannow and c:\chkdsk c: /r run does check and make repairs if needed.
Running sfc.exe under administrator privs. a bit ago. "Just Because" only borked up one thing. Windows persistently telling me that my Prolific RS232 to USB adapter is "no longer supported". And sure enough. Plugged it in and Windows deemed it to the recycling center. So a forced driver reinstall fixed 'er up. Didn't mention that I have a Win 11 laptop.
If it's not unitrunker. It's something funky with it. Never the less. Converting the .msi to a .exe fixed it. So. Not so quick with the end user being at fault.

 

[DaveNF2G]

The freakin' FMPP tuning window is confusing. Two superimposed waveforms. Searching here doesn;t reveal what is what.
If I manually tune using the left-right arrow keys. There is a small vertical line on the left and a wider window towards the center.
If I set DSD+ my .bat file to open on 152.773 MHz. I don't see the frequency centered in the window.
I need to use the arrow keys to find "a frequency". But mousing over the center of the screen with the....IF bandwidth?....gap.
I know it's most probably 155.773 because it happens to be the local fire/ambulance freq. and is active with voice.
Nowhere in the entire window do I see that frequency. And especially in the gap. where there is activity. It displays something funky like for example 155.7932.....

I can answer this. The white line is received radio frequencies. The green line, which is always centered, is the audio level of the selected signal. To change receive frequencies, put focus onto the tuning window and then type whatever frequency you want on your keyboard and hit Enter.

You can read out the currently tuned frequency from the top of the window. Any other frequency within the bandwidth can be identfied by putting the mouse on it and reading it from the screen (no need to click on it - that will retune the receiver to that freq). Getting an accurate reading of the frequency requires that the tuning step be correct or at least a factor of the correct step, and that you know what the actual allocations are for the band in question.

 

[dataframe61]

A veces es mejor crear tu propio plugin ajustándote a tus necesidades, para registrar la frecuencia que recibe la radio, yo uso este código:

privado ISharpControl _control;
frecuencia de bloqueo pública larga { get; colocar; }

marcador vacío público()
{
LockFrequncy = _control.Frequency;
frecuencia de cadena = $"{(double)LockFrequncy / 1000000.0:0,0.000#} MHz";
}

Si el receptor nos dice por ejemplo 000.159.671.422 el código anterior nos devuelve 159.6714 MHz

 

[a417]

Not so quick with the end user being at fault.

View attachment 156381

The Prolific USB issues are discussed frequently on here (good link with drivers - save it, circa '2023) , as well as all over Al Gore's Internet.

That issue in the image results from your local security policy, and decisions made by the Unitrunker devs. That can also be addressed with a couple of clicks, but UAC settings are to prevent users from user-created catastrophies. You clearly had the ability to immediately circumvent that particular restriction in a roundabout manner, so I can only assume that you are comfortable in researching error messages and resolving them in a safe manner.

Good luck, hope you get it all taken care of and back to working for you.

 

[dave3825]

Got interested in unitrunker.

And IT wouldn't install with the one and only .msi installer.

Off to the great wide web to find a msi to exe converter. Try again. It installed finally. The msi installer.....run as administrator, all that crap. Nope. Convert it to an exe file and success.

An EXE file is an executable file. This is a general term for anything from an installer to a standalone program, or even just code. An MSI file is a Microsoft Installer file. This is dedicated exclusively to installing data using the Windows Installer.

Didn't mention that I have a Win 11 laptop.
If it's not unitrunker. It's something funky with it. Never the less. Converting the .msi to a .exe fixed it.

Not so quick with the end user being at fault.

It boils down to something on your end as one should not have to convert an msi file to an exe file to do an install. What exact version of Win 11 do you have and as @a417 mentioned, is windows installer present?

 

[ArloG]

Dave. Of course Windows Installer is present or other .msi's wouldn't work. Right?
And believe you me. I've tried many more since the last post and all work w/o a hitch. Just unitrunker. Double click. A short tray icon.
And *poof*.
The only option for the service is manual start. Which means it is invoked upon launching the file.
And you highlighted my information screen capture. All .msi files give this pop up.
No real biggie. And how many actually know that you can easily convert an .msi file to exe?
I mean. I don't have a crap ton of virus this and that. Just Defender.
The biggest headache is every piece of info for unitrunker is on the home page for it. Downloading and installing it. But where the hell is the download link on that page? I mean. I ain't stupid. Firefox, Chrome, Edge. I figured it may be an incompatible or hidden link. Oh but No!
I poked and moused-over the whole home page.
Again. No biggie. I will sit down at my desktop pc later on and see what the deal is.
I see a really cool and detailed 'tube video on getting it to work w/o the RR database. That I would probably use only once.

DSD+ Fastlane is what I'll be focusing on. Just knowing that the freq. is in the narrow left band and audio is in the wide center band is a relief.
The green and white waves within it need a bit of using the search options. Unless someone cares to pipe in.
Thanks guys.

 

[RaleighGuy]

The biggest headache is every piece of info for unitrunker is on the home page for it. Downloading and installing it. But where the hell is the download link on that page? I mean. I ain't stupid. Firefox, Chrome, Edge. I figured it may be an incompatible or hidden link. Oh but No!
I poked and moused-over the whole home page.

From the home page there are numerous links to help you. And, the download link isn't hidden, it is the notepad looking icon on top right next to the g icon. Apparently you forgot to check that one when you poked and moused-over the whole home page.

 

[ArloG]

Oh My bad. The floppy disk looking thingy. Was the last sentence really necessary?

 

[dave3825]

Of course Windows Installer is present or other .msi's wouldn't work. Right?

Well yes, but I did not know other msi installers were working. Really not sure why it had to be converted and honestly, your the first person I ever heard of having to do that.

see a really cool and detailed 'tube video on getting it to work w/o the RR database. That I would probably use only once.

DSD+ Fastlane is what I'll be focusing on.

If you monitor P25 systems, and have a radio reference subscription, you can download all talk groups and sites formatted to be pasted right into the DSDPlus.groups and sites files. And also all tg's into Unitrunker.

And, the download link isn't hidden, it is the notepad looking icon on top right next to the g icon.

Actually, lol, that's not a notepad but rather a 3.5 inch floppy disk. Not sure of your age but I have bought, formatted and used many of those in the MS DOS / Windows 1.0 days.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Actually, lol, that's not a notepad but rather a 3.5 inch floppy disk. Not sure of your age but I have bought, formatted and used many of those in the MS DOS / Windows 1.0 days.

Yes I too have used and abused a lot of them in the past. But didn't think they were still remembered.

 

[ArloG]

I go back to at least paper tape on Teletypes. When a 5mb hard drive cost more than a Caddy (and weighed half as much as). 8 track tape drives And I ain't talkin' Conway Twitty. Floppy disks as big as a medium pizza. And crypto with explosive charges and flip-top 'destruct' switches. Not soap boxing though. Just trying to learn is all.
As far as the .msi. Nothing with the pc. No 1d10T errors. A simple trait going back at least to Win 10. Just funky. Or far out. Or as old as I am....maybe groovy. Although as mentioned all of the other .msi files tried after the file system check hints launched w/o a hitch.
I guess I was looking too hard and missed something.
See it? Lower right?