The Definitive DSD+ Passive Digital Monitor Thread

[ArloG]

This thread is started to hopefully clear up some questions of the use of DSD+ and DSD+ Fastlane under Passive Digital Monitor Control mode.
I'm not alone in the fact of expectations and functionality when using the application with SDR software or an audio or discriminator input from receivers.
So. Let's get started.

DSD+ 1.01 downloaded with the supporting DLL files is working pooly for me and always has.
I see continuous data streaming and so it apparently is working. Somewhat. I have logged and tuned to VC channel frequencies under the different modes. Or selected Decode All Above Protocols. Or the protocol I'm currently receiving. Using an SDRPlay RSP2 has given mixed results. But normally IF audio is decoded it is broken up. I do have excellent signal strength.
Not knowing that my main receiver, an Icom IC-R8600 would benefit from the Fastlane subscription or not I purchased a lifetime sub.
RR forums have assisted in helping with getting the RSP2 trunking and working.
That said. The DSD+ team needs to clearly specify that the Fastlane subscription is specific to dongle based SDR radios. That MUST be done.

What benefits, if any, would Fastlane over the free version have for a person not using a dongle receiver?
In Passive Digital Monitor mode. WILL DSD+1.01 decode audio? Provided that SDR software using I/Q is setup correctly?
IS it capable of decoding audio reliably?
Does Fastlane under Passive Digital Monitor mode perform better or differently than the free version?
I recently assisted in the install of DSD+ 1.01 for a group member on FB and here.
It was confusing as hell understanding why he didn't have the menu's in the event log window that I had to assist in configuring the inputs, outputs, etc.
UNTIL I actually duplicated his install process. It had been over 2 years since I updated to Fastlane. Sure enough, the free version has no menu options.
That is completely stupid. How many Fastlane users forgot that?

Who IS "Fastlane"? Will the person or persons please step up? Introduce yourselves?
It is now an SDR world. But it appears as if your support is only concentrated on the cheap-to-astronomically priced RTL, etc. based dongle receivers.
Such as SDR# has locked out and threatened the developers who did wonderful work in enabling alternate SDR receivers.
There ARE people who may not opt to have or own a specific vendors radio, more antennas, switches, etc.
You have to realize this. Such as I don't own a CB. Nor desire to.
I'll cool down on this.

What IS the stand on the DSD+ team developing trunking and radio control such as is the case for dongle receivers?
CAT control, TCP/IP control is built into many high quality NOT dongle receivers. Again. Perhaps it is the DSD+ teams intention to only ever support the dongles.

I see that posts "dissing" DSD+ for inadequate support or responses to email inquiries getting trashed rather quickly here.
And some of the advanced, a bit arrogant, users of DSD+ being curt with newer users. Instead of offering good, informative assistance.
DSD+ says come here. DSD+ seasoned users here yell go buy a dongle. Not everyone can afford to have an antenna farm. Including those with HOA restrictions.

Satellite forums are polite and helpful. So are amateur radio only forums. As are the HF nets in the evening. If they still are called that, "Elmers" pass down what they know to share knowledge. Not yelling out "You gotta' get rid of that and go buy a Yaesu". I think you catch my drift.

Will DSD+, Fastlane work decoding audio using Passive Digital Monitor reilably? And can we get a tips and tricks sticky or thread going?
And would you please. The DSD+ team. Work on getting an interface or module to enable trunk following for people with real radio receivers?

 

[jhsands]

dsdplus.exe -rp works just fine for decoding line-in audio.

 

[thewraith2008]

The DSD+ team needs to clearly specify that the Fastlane subscription is specific to dongle based SDR radios. That MUST be done.

This is mentioned in the:

DSD+ trunk voice following uses two RF sources (control and voice) and
two instances of DSD+ (control and voice)

The control signal source can be any NFM receiver whose flat audio is piped to
DSD+ via a mic or line in input, or an SDR device (RTL SDR dongle, Airspy, etc.)
whose demodulated audio is routed to DSD+ via Virtual Audio Cable, VB Cable or a CP link.

The voice channel source must be a RTL SDR dongle that is being controlled by FMP or FMPA.
FMP/FMPA's audio output should be routed to DSD+ via a TCP link.

The Fastlane is an evolution of the public version and the above requirement stands.

• see 'Using DSD+ with external signal sources' in the Fastlane Notes.txt

What benefits, if any, would Fastlane over the free version have for a person not using a dongle receiver?
In Passive Digital Monitor mode. WILL DSD+1.01 decode audio? Provided that SDR software using I/Q is setup correctly?
IS it capable of decoding audio reliably?
Does Fastlane under Passive Digital Monitor mode perform better or differently than the free version?

Yes DSD+1.01 can decode audio if present and one of the supported types it can decode.
Decoding audio reliably will depend on a few different factors, main one been received signal quality.

Fastlane will offer better decoding of:

• P25 (Phase 1 and Phase 2)
• DMR (TIII, TIII Motorola, TIII Tait, TIII Hytera, XPT,, Con+, Cap+, CapMax and probably others I can't remember)
• NEXTEDGE
• And others

I recently assisted in the install of DSD+ 1.01 for a group member on FB and here.
It was confusing as hell understanding why he didn't have the menu's in the event log window that I had to assist in configuring the inputs, outputs, etc.
UNTIL I actually duplicated his install process. It had been over 2 years since I updated to Fastlane. Sure enough, the free version has no menu options.
That is completely stupid. How many Fastlane users forgot that?

This is silly, comparing an older version of a program to a newer version.
This would be like complaining that Windows 3 didn't have USB support but Windows 98SE did.

Who IS "Fastlane"? Will the person or persons please step up? Introduce yourselves?
It is now an SDR world. But it appears as if your support is only concentrated on the cheap-to-astronomically priced RTL, etc. based dongle receivers.

They have stood up, they are "DSDPlus", they are not active on the forum anymore but can be contacted via their email.
From DSD+ early days, the focus of DSD+ was clearly going to be SDR as it opened up the possibility of easier trunking ability.
By comparison, SDR is far cheaper than a standalone receiver.

What IS the stand on the DSD+ team developing trunking and radio control such as is the case for dongle receivers?
CAT control, TCP/IP control is built into many high quality NOT dongle receivers. Again. Perhaps it is the DSD+ teams intention to only ever support the dongles.

They probably won't add it, why, their choice I guess. You can always request for it to be added.
As per their documentation, an SDR is a requirement for the trunking functionality.
You can still use the standalone receiver as the control channel receiver for DSD+.

Will DSD+, Fastlane work decoding audio using Passive Digital Monitor reilably?

Yes it will but will depend on a few different factors, main one been received signal quality.
A lot of people seem to be happily using it.

DSD+ is an evolving program, the Fastlane is going to be better than the public release version because it's 6.5 years newer with many changes since.

I understand that to newcomers, DSD+ can be a challenge to get your head around it's functionality and usage. Especially when you are in a hurry to start listening to something. You just can't expect to use/setup DSD+ straight away without a few bumps along the way.

The fact is, you have to read though the numerous text files of the public release and the fastlane Notes.txt (changelog) to understand it's new features and usage (and sometimes removal of features). Most of us have done this but the forum is still here if we need help.

 

[ArloG]

dsdplus.exe -rp works just fine for decoding line-in audio.

So in the public release. Is it necessary to create a .bat file to select the input source? Or is it possible to change inputs while running. ? gets me a list of commands but no source or output setting options?
If anyone has success using the USB audio output of a receiver. What settings in Windows is getting you at least a streaming text window?
So far. Nothing. I've tried all sorts of sample rates and volume settings and those suggested in the manual do not work.
The only way to get a streaming data window is to go through an SDR application using I/Q with VB Cable output.
Also. DSDPlusUI is only for Fastlane.
As expected. Contacting DSD+ on the audio questions resulted in the same as trying to email Jupiter and waiting for a reply. It goes out but it don't came back.

 

[slicerwizard]

Is there some reason why you don't use the DSD+ Input menu? Where's the issue? Explain.

 

[ArloG]

Is there some reason why you don't use the DSD+ Input menu? Where's the issue? Explain.

If you're mentioning the public release and not Fastlane.
It's because I've been assisting a guy who's going through the same decoding scenario that I have been who is using the public release.
That's mentioned in my OP.
Simple question really. Yes we can set the preferred mic, speaker settings in Windows plus set the defaults for a specific application.
So, my question remains.
Would you offer a solution please? If there actually is one.

 

[slicerwizard]

So in the public release. Is it necessary to create a .bat file to select the input source? Or is it possible to change inputs while running. ? gets me a list of commands but no source or output setting options?

Oh, DSD+ 1.101...

Your thread is all over the map. I thought it was an "FL don't support my $2k radio" rant.

Just clicking on and running the 1.101 DSDPlus.exe file should generate a list of the WaveIn and WaveOut devices and their index numbers. 1.101 comes with some batch files. They can be edited to fit one's particular situation. Just copy or edit the CC or VC .bat files. Then change the -ixxxxx to whatever input device number you want. And probably remove the -rc or -rv; I assume just simple digital voice decoding is the goal.

 

[redbeard]

Wow. Just wow.

 

[racingfan360]

So in my experience DSD+ Fastlane or Public, using Passive Digital Monitor Control works extremely well when fed with the discriminator tap output of a receiver.
Are you sure the IC-8600 has a discriminator output?
A 5sec google found this thread as the first hit which may be relevant: R8600 - Using the Icom R8600

 

[ArloG]

So in my experience DSD+ Fastlane or Public, using Passive Digital Monitor Control works extremely well when fed with the discriminator tap output of a receiver.
Are you sure the IC-8600 has a discriminator output?
A 5sec google found this thread as the first hit which may be relevant: R8600 - Using the Icom R8600

And as far as I know there is no discriminator output actual on it. I would think that the USB audio would be like disc. out.
So far only I/Q seems to work.

 

[slicerwizard]

I would think that the USB audio would be like disc. out.

Well, that wouldn't be hard to check. Got a sample of USB audio of a C4FM P25 signal?

 

[Forts]

Before you go calling out the DSD+ devs on their software and supprt I think I would want to confidently know what type of audio I was trying to feed into it.

Yes, the software is primarily designed for dongles which are inexpensive and easy to use... however you can still use *discriminator* audio from a tapped scanner, Moto radio... etc etc and it will work fine. However... numerous features only work when using a dongle.

As for what radios and protocols are supported by the software, that's entirely up to them. Keep in mind this is likely someone (or a group of someones) working on this in their spare time... this isn't their full time occupation. They don't have shelves full of the latest gear to try every piece of hardware to make it work, nor do they necessarily have tech specs and details to add certain things. Look at a protocol like Tetra... it's huge in the UK, and gaining traction in North America now too. Does DSD+ support it? No. Will it? Who knows.. that's up to them to decide, but... people subscribing to FastLane likely give them more enthusiasm to do so.

 

[racingfan360]

I would think that the USB audio would be like disc. out.

Really? Based on what observations you've posted above and the information that I linked, I came to the exact opposite conclusion.

 

[ArloG]

Boys I can or can't reply to every pro, con, or snide remark. Again. This was meant to clear the waters and hopefully get some intelligent input.
Slicerwizard got my gears going.
I will collect some audio files from the radio. Perhaps a few tips on the preference of recording them to my pc?
And to RF360. Listen up.

A DAC such as Focusrite makes far surpasses the quality of audio that can be fed into a pc's mic or line input jack.
Even a cheap Behringer UCA-202 DAC will let you hike sampling rates so that PDW and other discriminator output applications work extermely well compared to feeding the audio into a sound card port. And that was how I used my discriminator output from my IC-R8600 for years.
Those used the USB port. Cool?
So my train of thought. And a little more time last night was using the IC-R8600 USB audio port to feed DSD+ just did not work.
I did exhaust more time changing sampling rates and stereo/mono sampling rates.

At no time on a strong DMR or P25 signal could I get streaming data on the DSD+ window.
There are USB settings in the radio menu for volume out, if the dedicated port was to put out AF or IF, and levels.
I tried listening to the USB audio and varying the bass and treble setting in the radio menu. I heard no difference.
I would think (again) that the USB audio would provide "Flat Audio".
There are several FM bandwidth 'switches'. Besides WFM for FM broadcasts, the others did not work. 7, 15, & 50 kHz.

But using HDSDR and SDR-Console with IF bandwidth, gain, and volume settings all over the place using VB Cable to feed DSD+.
I get a windows full of streaming data. It's fairly rural here and the only time I've ever heard much if any audio is during the day where I would usually be at work. But I keep trying. Logging VC freqs and monitoring them.

Suggestions on how I should record both USB audio and my I/Q output for comparisons would be cool.

 

[racingfan360]

If there are any further questions on the use of DSD+ and DSD+ Fastlane under Passive Digital Monitor Control mode, when fed by *discriminator* audio from a tapped scanner, then do let us know and I'm sure someone can help.

As for the R8600 audio, I can only wish you further hours of joy with that, as you draw your own conclusions on what you think it should do and what it actually does/others have already concluded.

 

[Ubbe]

Isn't DSD using patented software routines that require licenses and that's why the people behind it do not want to make themselves known?

The only thing needed are to set the input level so that the oscilloscope window have the signal between 3/4 and full screen. Then run dsdtune.exe after you have manually recorded a digital signal using the R button to start and stop the recording, and it will try out the best settings to use in a bat file to decode that signal in the best possible way.

/Ubbe

 

[ArloG]

Isn't DSD using patented software routines that require licenses and that's why the people behind it do not want to make themselves known?

The only thing needed are to set the input level so that the oscilloscope window have the signal between 3/4 and full screen. Then run dsdtune.exe after you have manually recorded a digital signal using the R button to start and stop the recording, and it will try out the best settings to use in a bat file to decode that signal in the best possible way.

/Ubbe

I hadn't actually even heard of dsdtune. I found it and put it in the same folder and fastlane.
A few tips maybe?
Is dsdtune run from a bat file config?
Does it only run from a recorded file or can it run along with dsd+?
I did read the tutorial. As usual for a new user I had to ask a few questions.

Also in passive monitoring of fastlane what setting (output?) will let me hear only voice for NXDN, P25, etc and mute the actual signal?
I noticed that when I closed it the other day it wrote a .wav file and it had some "spotty" voice traffic. Something I didnt hear while running it.

I have a few more questions on how to actually acquire a recorded file that a member could try and see if I'm not doing something right.

Appreciate the patience

 

[racingfan360]

Also in passive monitoring of fastlane what setting (output?) will let me hear only voice for NXDN, P25, etc and mute the actual signal?

In Fastlane:
Decoder > Select All Protocols
then
Input>No Source Audio Monitoring

noticed that when I closed it the other day it wrote a .wav file and it had some "spotty" voice traffic. Something I didnt hear while running it.

I'd guess these are short bursts of unintelligible audio. Indicative of false positives.

I have a few more questions on how to actually acquire a recorded file that a member could try and see if I'm not doing something right.
Appreciate the patience

In Fastlane:
Input>Start Source Audio Recording
Run against a source signal for a period then
Input>Stop Source Audio Recording
You can upload the raw .wav file - written into the DSD+ root folder - to a file sharing site, share the link here for others to analyze

Please note that all of the characteristics of the problems you've posted to date are still indicative of feeding a non-discriminator source to DSD+

 

[Ubbe]

A few tips maybe?

You start a command window, cmd, and go to the dsd+ folder by first selecting the drive ex. E: by typing E: and hit enter. Then go to the folder ex. cd \programs\DSD and hit enter.
Then you type dsdtune and hit enter and get the syntax.

Dsdstune will start dsd+ and run the recorded file, I usually rename the recorded wav file to something simpler like test.wav, a few seconds and then tries other settings and run a few seconds again. It will repeat until it has found the best settings.

If you have recorded a 5 sec long file from a DMR system and then renamed it to test.wav you type dsdtune -i test.wav -fr -b scanner

Then start dsd+ by clicking the scanner.bat file.

I have one bat file for each source I can use.

But before doing any dsdtune session you will have to start dsd+ and check for proper audio level in the oscilloscope window. You also have to record when there's a constant datasignal, when someone are using the channel or a constant data from a control channel.

/Ubbe