Anyway you could show us above and below the CB band ?? Like maybe the 2:1 SWR curve ?
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"The Great Antenna Test of 2025"
- Thread starter niceguy71
- Start date
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Here's 26-28MHz on an NMO-27 mounted on the same truck as his, crew cab F350, center of the roof.
Thank you.Here's 26-28MHz on an NMO-27 mounted on the same truck as his, crew cab F350, center of the roof.
niceguy71
Active Member
we did the "Great Antenna Test of 2025" this weekend
I installed the Radioddity QT-60 in my pick-up truck and we set both radio's to 10 watts..... can't say I was overly thrilled with the QT-60... and this QT-60 was the radio I have had as my base station for the last year... I took it out of the base and put it in my truck for the test.
my old President Grant always came in loud and clear.... and my hearing was always able to pick out everyone I talked to on my old Grant.... the old Grant had a very sharp audio that was a bit staticky but even with the sharp loud static .. everyone was always very easily readable....... the Radioddity QT-60 REALLY needed the Driver Extreme DX901 speaker..... the Radioddity QT-60 with the NRC turned on, had me straining to hear WX2 out of the back ground? ... he sounded faded and distant compared to what I normally hear on my President Grant. so if I leave the Radioddity QT-60 in my truck I'll have to find a place for the speaker.... or maybe I'll get used to it?
I learned a lot... things I never thought of.... it will take a couple of weeks to piece together the video... but for today I will share some thoughts.
"Perspective"
so I took the LiL Wil for a test ride like all the other antenna's..... I really wanted to hate it..... but I could hear WX2Watch very clearly at 7.10 miles away... I honestly didn't think it would get more than 3 to 4 miles.... but I was hearing WX2 very clearly at the 7.10 mile location, what a great antenna (SO I THOUGHT)
later that night when the "Great Antenna Test of 2025" was over, WX2 and myself sat down to talk about the test... he was very smart and took good notes for me... I was driving ... holding a little dog, trying to work my phone's video camera.... dodging traffic coming back from a Cape Cod weekend and cocking my head trying to pull out WX2's voice and holding the mic to talk to WX2...
I really wished I had another person or ten hands........ so I tried to remember everything instead of take notes. as my dog kept knocking my camera over.
so we sat down and I told him what I thought was the worst antenna... and he looked at me like I was crazy and said the LiL WiL was the worst antenna???? I said no it was very clear at 7.10 miles??? he said he never heard me at 7 miles???... he never even heard me at 5 miles????? ( some of the antenna's went over 9 miles mobile to mobile)
so I thought back and sure enough I was able to hear him at 7 miles saying "Spindrift" ( my CB handle) are you out there... and I would say Yes WX2 I'm here... and he would say WX2 calling Spindrift.. and I would again say WX2 I can read you.
after thinking back... we were not talking..... I was able to hear his 69 inch tall Stryker SR-A10 antenna with the Lil Wil antenna... but he could not hear me!
so I believe looking at WX2's notes he stopped hearing me at the 4.35 mile location ( I'll have a better idea when I watch the video of his radio later........
so this taught me a lot.... I have had people buy the LiL Wil antenna and we would talk on our way to go fishing or shooting what ever..... and I would always lose them after 3 miles or so and tell them what a piece of garbage that antenna is and they need to get something better... they would always fight me and tell me it works great for them???? I would always get mad as I honestly can't hear them! and they NEED to get something better.......
well when I had the Little Wilson on my roof I was thinking it was working great..... because I could "hear" WX2 and all the people in the background and even skip.... what I didn't realize is no one could hear me!!!!!
people with the Little Wilson are hearing people with good antenna's loud and clear.....and thinking it's a great antenna... but the people with the good antenna's like me or WX2 are actually straining and trying to hear what the Little Wilson is saying... it was a very difficult job to make a conversation out of what the Little Wilson transmits.
I can remember talking to people that had the Little Wilson and was only able to hear every third word and trying to fill in the blanks... I can remember actually cocking my head and concentrating on listening to the radio trying to decipher what the Little Wilson people are saying????...
so now I understand why the people that have Little Wilson antenna's think it's fine.... they are able to talk about 3 to 4 miles out... but they hear really good so they hear guys that are many more miles away... like the 7.10 miles I was still hearing WX2 ok.... I had to pick his voice out.. but I could hear him... so if I owned a Little Wilson I wouldn't think it was that bad at all... but as soon as you try to talk to the Little Wilson you learn what a piece of junk it is..... I can remember cursing how badly those Little Wilson antenna's are as I would talk to them.... and really really struggle to keep the conversation going.... now I know the people with the Little Wilson are hearing me great and are thinking we are talking back and forth just fine....
so now I have the "Perspective" of how well the Little Wilson hears AND HOW BADLY IT TRANSMITS ... unless you were on both sides of the conversation you would never know how badly the Little Wilson sucks.
I should, and may make a new post called "Little Wilson" when I get the video done and show this PERSPECTIVE of how if you own the Little Wilson you don't actually know how bad it is.....
as for the other antenna's in the test...... well WX2 said it best.... he said if I share my results with Radio Reference... the guys will find you and burn your house down... I am not going to make any friends with this test and no one is going to believe the outcome.... but I honestly didn't fudge anything in this test... the results are true results... and I will post them even if I have to get banned from this group.
it was a fun weekend thank you for all the help WX2Watch
I installed the Radioddity QT-60 in my pick-up truck and we set both radio's to 10 watts..... can't say I was overly thrilled with the QT-60... and this QT-60 was the radio I have had as my base station for the last year... I took it out of the base and put it in my truck for the test.
my old President Grant always came in loud and clear.... and my hearing was always able to pick out everyone I talked to on my old Grant.... the old Grant had a very sharp audio that was a bit staticky but even with the sharp loud static .. everyone was always very easily readable....... the Radioddity QT-60 REALLY needed the Driver Extreme DX901 speaker..... the Radioddity QT-60 with the NRC turned on, had me straining to hear WX2 out of the back ground? ... he sounded faded and distant compared to what I normally hear on my President Grant. so if I leave the Radioddity QT-60 in my truck I'll have to find a place for the speaker.... or maybe I'll get used to it?
I learned a lot... things I never thought of.... it will take a couple of weeks to piece together the video... but for today I will share some thoughts.
"Perspective"
so I took the LiL Wil for a test ride like all the other antenna's..... I really wanted to hate it..... but I could hear WX2Watch very clearly at 7.10 miles away... I honestly didn't think it would get more than 3 to 4 miles.... but I was hearing WX2 very clearly at the 7.10 mile location, what a great antenna (SO I THOUGHT)
later that night when the "Great Antenna Test of 2025" was over, WX2 and myself sat down to talk about the test... he was very smart and took good notes for me... I was driving ... holding a little dog, trying to work my phone's video camera.... dodging traffic coming back from a Cape Cod weekend and cocking my head trying to pull out WX2's voice and holding the mic to talk to WX2...
I really wished I had another person or ten hands........ so I tried to remember everything instead of take notes. as my dog kept knocking my camera over.
so we sat down and I told him what I thought was the worst antenna... and he looked at me like I was crazy and said the LiL WiL was the worst antenna???? I said no it was very clear at 7.10 miles??? he said he never heard me at 7 miles???... he never even heard me at 5 miles????? ( some of the antenna's went over 9 miles mobile to mobile)
so I thought back and sure enough I was able to hear him at 7 miles saying "Spindrift" ( my CB handle) are you out there... and I would say Yes WX2 I'm here... and he would say WX2 calling Spindrift.. and I would again say WX2 I can read you.
after thinking back... we were not talking..... I was able to hear his 69 inch tall Stryker SR-A10 antenna with the Lil Wil antenna... but he could not hear me!
so I believe looking at WX2's notes he stopped hearing me at the 4.35 mile location ( I'll have a better idea when I watch the video of his radio later........
so this taught me a lot.... I have had people buy the LiL Wil antenna and we would talk on our way to go fishing or shooting what ever..... and I would always lose them after 3 miles or so and tell them what a piece of garbage that antenna is and they need to get something better... they would always fight me and tell me it works great for them???? I would always get mad as I honestly can't hear them! and they NEED to get something better.......
well when I had the Little Wilson on my roof I was thinking it was working great..... because I could "hear" WX2 and all the people in the background and even skip.... what I didn't realize is no one could hear me!!!!!
people with the Little Wilson are hearing people with good antenna's loud and clear.....and thinking it's a great antenna... but the people with the good antenna's like me or WX2 are actually straining and trying to hear what the Little Wilson is saying... it was a very difficult job to make a conversation out of what the Little Wilson transmits.
I can remember talking to people that had the Little Wilson and was only able to hear every third word and trying to fill in the blanks... I can remember actually cocking my head and concentrating on listening to the radio trying to decipher what the Little Wilson people are saying????...
so now I understand why the people that have Little Wilson antenna's think it's fine.... they are able to talk about 3 to 4 miles out... but they hear really good so they hear guys that are many more miles away... like the 7.10 miles I was still hearing WX2 ok.... I had to pick his voice out.. but I could hear him... so if I owned a Little Wilson I wouldn't think it was that bad at all... but as soon as you try to talk to the Little Wilson you learn what a piece of junk it is..... I can remember cursing how badly those Little Wilson antenna's are as I would talk to them.... and really really struggle to keep the conversation going.... now I know the people with the Little Wilson are hearing me great and are thinking we are talking back and forth just fine....
so now I have the "Perspective" of how well the Little Wilson hears AND HOW BADLY IT TRANSMITS ... unless you were on both sides of the conversation you would never know how badly the Little Wilson sucks.
I should, and may make a new post called "Little Wilson" when I get the video done and show this PERSPECTIVE of how if you own the Little Wilson you don't actually know how bad it is.....
as for the other antenna's in the test...... well WX2 said it best.... he said if I share my results with Radio Reference... the guys will find you and burn your house down... I am not going to make any friends with this test and no one is going to believe the outcome.... but I honestly didn't fudge anything in this test... the results are true results... and I will post them even if I have to get banned from this group.
it was a fun weekend thank you for all the help WX2Watch
I have to ask if your grant is easier to hear why do you need to "get used" to something else. Had your grant quit working or something ?
I like the President radios much better than the QT60 or the QT80. You are right on the receive on the President's. They just hear better. I really don't much care about the Little Will but I am waiting for you to tell everyone what the best results were. Don't worry we won't beat you up to bad! I appreciate all your input.......
niceguy71
Active Member
my "Plan" was always to put a QT-60 or a 5555 N II in the truck... I like to have the same radio in my truck as I have on my base station... that way I will get muscle memory and will always be able to change channels and settings without taking my eyes off the road.....
I can get unbelievable money for the old President Grant Export... it has a Astatic 575-M6 microphone and I see just the mic sell for $350 many times.... here is a 575 M6 mic on E-bay for $475 CRAZY money for a Astatic 575 M-6 and that old Export radio with 500 channels and factory AM/FM SSB back in 1989 ( 10 watts AM/FM and 25 watts SSB) is a very rare radio and commands big money... I've seen them not working and sell on E-bay for $500
so if I can buy three 5555 N II 's for the money I can sell the old Grant for... I would be crazy not too.... the 5555 N II has NRC and 60 watts and more channels ...better display newer and improved everything! ... and also Capacitors always leak when a radio gets old... so the Grant is living on borrowed time... the smart thing would be to sell it now.
with that said... I have really grown to love my old grant and find it blows away a lot of better radios including the 5555 N II. the buttons on the Grant are truly a lot easier to find and work everything.
it's funny I saw a lot of posts on Radio Reference about guys not liking the Menu driven radios like the 5555 N II and I thought they were crazy.... as all the adjustments you have to make after setting it up the first time are all still knobs..... well now I completely understand why many people like the radios with the knobs...... I love the 5555 N II on my Base... it's easy to adjust and work.... but reaching down and talking my eyes off the road trying to find the MODE button was actually dangerous.
I only swapped the radios for the test... I figured if anyone watches my YouTube video, I would like them to see how a Sirio 5000 or a Stryker SR-A10 or a Tram 3500 work with a GREAT radio like the QT-60 or the 5555 N II ... this way new people getting into the hobby can see us actually talking mobile to mobile over 9 miles away on just 10 watts
really too soon to say.... but the QT-60 I put in the truck is a great radio.... WX2Watch was over and I was testing the conditions and asked if anyone could hear me on 37 LSB and a guy from the West Indies said I was sounding great!... he said what country he was in but I forget now.... but that QT-60 is the short version and I put it in the same CB bracket my Grant was in... all 4 of the SIDE knobs/screws looked exactly the same and all the holes lined up perfectly .... but my old Grant sat up a little higher and I could glance down while driving and see it... I was having a hard time seeing the display on the QT-60 as it was too low ... I also reached to adjust the volume a couple times and felt it was really awkward with the mic cord in front of it.... a couple of times while driving the mic cord got tangled and I could not pull it apart.... .. it is also lower than the Grant so the speaker is in a different spot ... the speaker on the grant would shoot up at me... on the QT-60 it's more up against the middle seat......so I may have to move it around... but I will not do anything until I just drive and use it for a few weeks and see if I get used to it.
niceguy71
Active Member
BillDean, I'm afraid you will be the most disappointed with my Antenna test.... it may have been that the Larsen really needs to connect to the ground plane..... I have it on a Magnetic mount... and that could greatly affect it? .... but the SWR was fine and it seemed to work on that magnet mount.... all the other antenna's were on magnetic mounts too....... the results I got will not make you happy... I was pretty much all set to install the Larsen NMO27 on a Jeep hood.... but that will not be happening now
I really don't know how I'm going to show my video to SlowMover....he will also be looking for me... I am just thankful he lives in Texas.... but I will have to wear a bomb proof suit to open my mail.
niceguy71
Active Member
WX2Watch... that guy I got on 37 LSB that said West Indies.... do you remember what country he said he was from? I normally write that stuff in my log book... but with the test going on I forgot.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate it. I guessing one day I'll have to decide to either pass along for sale some of the old vintage stuff I have including a new in the box 575 M6 (unwired) and the one I run on my HR 2510 set up from factory stock new by me, in the mid 90s or leave to all to my son, also a general class ham.
I've got a lot of stuff laying around here I've meant to go thru and fix up but I'm just not ready to part with some of my old stuff yet. I've never been one that needed the latest and greatest of anything that just came out, rather I want till it depreciates in value some (ok or alot) and pick it up used. I wanted almost 30 years to get the HF ham radio I wanted when I was first licensed in 95, the Yaesu 1000D but now now after me enjoying it for 4-5 years my son has it and is using it. Yep one day it will need work, and Yep, I'll fix it as long as parts are still available. Same with my 2510. Frankly the only reason I parted with the 1000D was I decided I wanted 6 meters included in the same radio.
I've not the funds to buy a lot of the newer stuff but what I do have is a lot of friends that have bought this or that and we all swap stuff around. I've had a chance lately to run a host of different 10/11 meter radios (on the base) and I've formulated my own opinions on things. They'd differ with a lot of what's posted here, and if it works for me, then it works for me, and frankly neither you, I, nor anyone else here knows what we desire out of our equipment. Everyone has different uses for their radios.
If I might suggest, skip, DX or such is never a way to judge a radio, antenna or anything else. I've talked skip since 1971 on some of the lowest wattage, crap antenna systems you can think of, including a K-40 on my BBQ grill and a 10/11 meter HT in my parking lot back in 97 with the extended metal whip. When it's meant to happen it will happen, and when not the finest systems in the world will not create that which Mother Nature has decided won't happen. It's the ground wave that makes the difference in testing.
Hopefully in a month or so, I'll have my car set back up, using the most likely the Larsen NMO 30 and longer whip. While my needs are slightly different than yours, should be an interesting test between that and some older Mag mounts I have laying around here.
Thank you for testing the lil wil, I'm not the least surprised by the outcome but honestly with "less radio" we got further back in the 90s than what you achieved in your testing. While it never held its own against the "big guys", we had no problems talking 10-15 miles mobile to base with one. Maybe conditions have changed that much noise wise you need more these days, who knows.
Again, thanks for your response and the report on your tests. Best of luck to you. 73-Greg
wx2watch
Member
Trinidad.
Nah.......I won't be disappointed in anything you find in the test of the NMO27 at all. I have been consistently talking 15 to 20 miles with my set up. It far out weights what my expectation were all ready. The option I have chosen in the center of the roof certainly seem best to me. It's hard to even tell I have a radio in my rig, and I like that. All the coax is hidden and well protected. I had the hood mount for a while. I never really liked it at all. It just made my $100,000.00 look cheap or tacky! That MNO27 with a President Washington radio is a great system in my F-350, and looks very professional!BillDean, I'm afraid you will be the most disappointed with my Antenna test.... it may have been that the Larsen really needs to connect to the ground plane..... I have it on a Magnetic mount... and that could greatly affect it? .... but the SWR was fine and it seemed to work on that magnet mount.... all the other antenna's were on magnetic mounts too....... the results I got will not make you happy... I was pretty much all set to install the Larsen NMO27 on a Jeep hood.... but that will not be happening now
I really don't know how I'm going to show my video to SlowMover....he will also be looking for me... I am just thankful he lives in Texas.... but I will have to wear a bomb proof suit to open my mail.
Chris155
Member
Thanks for taking time, effort and funds to do all this testing and research.BillDean, I'm afraid you will be the most disappointed with my Antenna test.... it may have been that the Larsen really needs to connect to the ground plane..... I have it on a Magnetic mount... and that could greatly affect it? .... but the SWR was fine and it seemed to work on that magnet mount.... all the other antenna's were on magnetic mounts too....... the results I got will not make you happy... I was pretty much all set to install the Larsen NMO27 on a Jeep hood.... but that will not be happening now
I really don't know how I'm going to show my video to SlowMover....he will also be looking for me... I am just thankful he lives in Texas.... but I will have to wear a bomb proof suit to open my mail.
What I’ve read here and elsewhere online tells me the Larsen needs a permanent mount and good ground plane. I’ve read of a trunk lip mount nmo27 that couldn’t get good Swr. That poster had used the exact antenna on a center roof permanent mount with success. Doing research for my next mobile install I also noticed laird makes a nmo commercial 27-30mhz antenna that’s “dc grounded for less than ideal ground plane installation”. I will be trying that one out on the hood of an infinity suv.
niceguy71
Active Member
nothing wrong with 15 plus miles!
I can talk to people that have a mobile CB... using my tall base station 15 to 20 miles away.
.... mobile to mobile ...no.. but my old CB was only 10 watts.... now that I have the QT60 in my truck I will have to learn what it can do... not sure where I will keep the power set at???? seeing most people have a 4 watt radio.. they will not be able to talk to me more than ?????? miles away
even with my old 10 watt CB the people I talked to mobile to mobile always said I was giving them a incredibly strong signal ( they would usually say I was blowing their speakers out.. or bending their needle....) but they would sound distant and I would have to pull their voice out of the static.... so I think I will probably keep my radio at 10 watts as that has always worked fine to actually talk mobile to mobile.... no point in having my radio at 25 plus watts and having people 20 miles hearing me and not being able to get back to me.
so BillDean what are you running your radio at on AM?
on 37 and 38 LSB I understand you need a little more.... but I'm just curious what wattage your getting people 15 to 20 miles with?
niceguy71
Active Member
I will never have any way to tell "if" or how much of a difference between the Larsen NMO27 installed permanently VS my Tram NMO magnetic mount by the way I love that NMO Mag mount... it is very well made and seems to work well.. I also have a Tram 3/8" mag mount that I can screw in fiberglass antenna's like a firestik.... it has greatly helped me diagnose installation problems... when I can't get a good SWR on a fiberglass antenna say on a tail light mount that is over a 3:1 SWR ...... I generally take the fiberglass antenna and screw it into the Tram magnetic mount my Tram 3/8 mag mount and place it on the hood or roof and find the SWR is very good like a 1:4 SWR... so it lets me now it is not the antenna but the location or the mount....
so I do think these magnetic mounts work pretty good... I bought my mag mount to see how well the NMO would work before I drilled the hole.
it will be interesting to see how it works out for you.
niceguy71
Active Member
thank you, ..that was my first Trinidad contact... glad you were here for it.
As always please let us know how that works out.
There is a lot of local CB use in my area. A lot of the guys run Export Radios of some kind or another. Some are using the Strykers, QT80's and the AT5555n2 and certainly others. My Washington is an 80 watt radio, though I rarely use the power all the way up unless talking skip. I usually run it a little over a 1/4 the way up, so maybe 25 watts. Michigans terrain is pretty flat so I imagine that helps. Or maybe all the water surrounding the state. I purchased the radio from Scott's Radio. He did the Mars alinement and tune on the radio, and the Washington just plain hear's better than anything I have had thus far. Start the video at about 4 minute Mark
I'm enjoying this thread and awaiting the full results.
I'm in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" category right now. I'm fine with drilling holes, but I'm getting performance from a mag mount that's pretty amazing and want to at least equal that with an NMO install.
My G90 puts out 20 watts, and that does fantastic when the band is open, and locally in this rural area, though I'm rarely on AM. The Palomar 400 under the seat stays off unless I want to jump into the DX pileups.
I'm using the Stryker SAR-10 mag mount dead center on the top of my Nissan. Right at 9' on the sheet metal down the A and C pillars. Reception is great all across the G90's spectrum, from 500 kHz to 30 MHz; AM broadcast stations come in much farther than the in-car system.
I want the clean look of a proper install, but I really like my present performance. I think my best bet all around will be the NMO 30 with as long of a whip I can get for it and let the Xiegu do the tuning. The Palomar can come in the house; it's nice having the juice, but I just don't use it often anymore.
I'm in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" category right now. I'm fine with drilling holes, but I'm getting performance from a mag mount that's pretty amazing and want to at least equal that with an NMO install.
My G90 puts out 20 watts, and that does fantastic when the band is open, and locally in this rural area, though I'm rarely on AM. The Palomar 400 under the seat stays off unless I want to jump into the DX pileups.
I'm using the Stryker SAR-10 mag mount dead center on the top of my Nissan. Right at 9' on the sheet metal down the A and C pillars. Reception is great all across the G90's spectrum, from 500 kHz to 30 MHz; AM broadcast stations come in much farther than the in-car system.
I want the clean look of a proper install, but I really like my present performance. I think my best bet all around will be the NMO 30 with as long of a whip I can get for it and let the Xiegu do the tuning. The Palomar can come in the house; it's nice having the juice, but I just don't use it often anymore.
prcguy
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I don't see any good useful info out of the test, nothing personal but that was a lot of work with little to show. If you want to repeat the test but with meaningful gain differences between antennas I will send you a tiny spectrum analyzer that I've been playing with that should measure signal levels close to .1dB. Its very easy to operate and you would set up the vehicle to test antennas maybe a block away on flat ground in field or similar then transmit on each antenna for 10-20 seconds to get a few sweeps on the analyzer and the curser will read out exact levels to .1dB. Just watch the level for a few traces to make sure its consistent then write down the number and go to the next antenna.
You can use just about any CB antenna on the receive vehicle with the spectrum analyzer connected. The analyzer will fit in a USPS small flat rate box for shipping and I will pay shipping to you if you pay the return. To set up the analyzer connect it to your antenna with adapters I will supply, turn it on, punch in a center frequency (the channel you will test on) then a span and I have been using 100KHz. After that a curser will automatically lock onto the strongest signal which would be you only a block away and the analyzer will read out the level of the curser. What could be easier? Let me know if you are interested.
Here is what the analyzer display looks like receiving me transmitting on ch 19 and I have a little 6" antenna on the analyzer for this test. You would have a higher noise floor but the signal from your transmit vehicle would still be way above the noise floor or any other signals. The frequency of the strongest signal and its exact level are in yellow at the top left of the screen. As you can see the TinySA is really tiny.
You can use just about any CB antenna on the receive vehicle with the spectrum analyzer connected. The analyzer will fit in a USPS small flat rate box for shipping and I will pay shipping to you if you pay the return. To set up the analyzer connect it to your antenna with adapters I will supply, turn it on, punch in a center frequency (the channel you will test on) then a span and I have been using 100KHz. After that a curser will automatically lock onto the strongest signal which would be you only a block away and the analyzer will read out the level of the curser. What could be easier? Let me know if you are interested.
Here is what the analyzer display looks like receiving me transmitting on ch 19 and I have a little 6" antenna on the analyzer for this test. You would have a higher noise floor but the signal from your transmit vehicle would still be way above the noise floor or any other signals. The frequency of the strongest signal and its exact level are in yellow at the top left of the screen. As you can see the TinySA is really tiny.
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