Thruway P25 Phase 2 System

k2hz

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NYSTA has signed a contract with L3Harris to build out the proposed P25 700/800 system over the next 3 years.

"Muller said the P25 deployment is expected to take three years. The first phase of work will involve installing about 1,300 XL-200 mobile radios into authority trucks and other vehicles. These multiband mobile radios will support communications on both the legacy UHF system and the new P25 network, which should ease the technological transition for authority personnel, according to Muller".

 

DaveNF2G

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They are running a small P25 system in Albany. It seems to cover only their HQ at Exit 23.
 

Joshuascanner2021

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NYSTA has signed a contract with L3Harris to build out the proposed P25 700/800 system over the next 3 years.

"Muller said the P25 deployment is expected to take three years. The first phase of work will involve installing about 1,300 XL-200 mobile radios into authority trucks and other vehicles. These multiband mobile radios will support communications on both the legacy UHF system and the new P25 network, which should ease the technological transition for authority personnel, according to Muller".

Finally!
 

seagravebuff60

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I'm glad to hear that. Thanks for sharing. The third paragraph states this, and I found this interesting and a bit funny.
“It’s about 571 linear miles of coverage,” Muller said during an interview with Urgent Communications. “It is roughly 50 sites—all P25 Phase 2 at 700/800 MHz … It is essentially a statewide system that will be used by New York State Police, too.”

I'm assuming he means used by NYSP Troop T only (Thruway Patrols), and not every NYSP Troop Statewide. Bad wording if you ask me. But im not surprised. I love how NYS is behind with everything.
 

k2hz

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I'm glad to hear that. Thanks for sharing. The third paragraph states this, and I found this interesting and a bit funny.


I'm assuming he means used by NYSP Troop T only (Thruway Patrols), and not every NYSP Troop Statewide. Bad wording if you ask me. But im not surprised. I love how NYS is behind with everything.
Typical marketing hype. It is "statewide" and will be "used by NYSP" not mentioning actually only "statewide" along the Thruway and only NYSP Troop T.
 

Joshuascanner2021

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I'm glad to hear that. Thanks for sharing. The third paragraph states this, and I found this interesting and a bit funny.


I'm assuming he means used by NYSP Troop T only (Thruway Patrols), and not every NYSP Troop Statewide. Bad wording if you ask me. But im not surprised. I love how NYS is behind with everything.
Of course NY state has to be one of the very few states now a days that did NOT do an actual state-wide P25 system like MOST of the other states did. I don't know how many exactly that did do an actual state wide P25 system but It seems like most have by this point. But then again NY state also do the weird thing that NY State Police are dispatch by the counties (minus the Thruway that does their own) which I never understood why when practically every other state their State police does their own dispatching and the counties do their own (meaning the counties and state police coordinate together when needed instead of the counties doing it for them meaning state police).
 

Joshuascanner2021

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Two47 base stations :love:, maybe TDMA CC for vendor locking too if I know my L3Harris.
Digging into the meeting minutes from the Thruway authority (which is not easy to find information on this), the wordings sounded like they didn't even look at other vendors and they ONLY were interested in L3 Harris, which is NOT a surprise.
 

seagravebuff60

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Of course NY state has to be one of the very few states now a days that did NOT do an actual state-wide P25 system like MOST of the other states did. I don't know how many exactly that did do an actual state wide P25 system but It seems like most have by this point. But then again NY state also do the weird thing that NY State Police are dispatch by the counties (minus the Thruway that does their own) which I never understood why when practically every other state their State police does their own dispatching and the counties do their own (meaning the counties and state police coordinate together when needed instead of the counties doing it for them meaning state police).
Very true. NYS is 20-40 Years behind. No surprise there. And yeah, it is one of the very few on that list. The only other states that have a proper statewide system in the area are CT, NJ, and PA. There are a number of other states, too, but NY is far behind. I get that the geographical size of NY State might be an issue, but other states of similar size, like PA, IL, or even CO, have accomplished it.

But then again NY state also do the weird thing that NY State Police are dispatch by the counties (minus the Thruway that does their own) which I never understood why when practically every other state their State police does their own dispatching and the counties do their own (meaning the counties and state police coordinate together when needed instead of the counties doing it for them meaning state police).
In Troop K, territory dispatching is done by NYSP and supplemented by the county dispatch in Zones 1 and 2. In Zone 3, it is done 100% by NYSP "TMC" in Hawthorne. They are also one of the Primary PSAPs in Westchester. I think Troops F and L also have a similar setup where NYSP handles the dispatching and is supplemented by the county. I can't speak for the rest of the state, but I think each troop operates differently.

Thruway is different from all other troops in how they identify on the radio. And yes, I believe they dispatch the entire Thruway from their HQ in Albany.
 

murse_joe

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I don't blame the different regions for doing their own thing. New York is a big state and has a lot of different areas. What you need from State Police is very different in White Plains vs the north country. Why not use a Westchester system when you're down there and a Central NY system when you're up there? Seems like kind of a waste to then build your own entirely new system too.

Unless they're trying to build it robust enough to have a bunch of different agencies like the NJICS
 

seagravebuff60

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I don't blame the different regions for doing their own thing. New York is a big state and has a lot of different areas. What you need from State Police is very different in White Plains vs the north country. Why not use a Westchester system when you're down there and a Central NY system when you're up there? Seems like kind of a waste to then build your own entirely new system too.

Unless they're trying to build it robust enough to have a bunch of different agencies like the NJICS
I doubt this new Harris system for the Thruway will allow other agencies besides those who work and parol the mainline Thruway and the spur routes. It seems that just like the MTA/MRRS system, this system will be designed for specific coverage immediately around the thruway and nothing else. It is not true, "Statewide," as the article portrays.

Just an FYI, what I mean by a true statewide system is a P25 System that can mostly blanket the whole state with coverage and allow multiple users on the system, not just the state entities. Systems like NJICS in NJ (as you mentioned), CLMRN in CT, and Starcom in IL are perfect examples of this, and many more.
 
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dave3825

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They are running a small P25 system in Albany. It seems to cover only their HQ at Exit 23.

Source? Because I don't see anything listed at all, so nothing has been submitted in RR.

FCC ULS and direct monitoring.

Not submitted because I can only receive it from closer to the HQ than where I live, so I don't have any details yet.


Might it be this?

Public Safety Pool, Trunked License - WRPX230 - NEW YORK STATE THRUWAY AUTHORITY


.
 
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sallen07

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Of course NY state has to be one of the very few states now a days that did NOT do an actual state-wide P25 system like MOST of the other states did. I don't know how many exactly that did do an actual state wide P25 system but It seems like most have by this point. But then again NY state also do the weird thing that NY State Police are dispatch by the counties (minus the Thruway that does their own) which I never understood why when practically every other state their State police does their own dispatching and the counties do their own (meaning the counties and state police coordinate together when needed instead of the counties doing it for them meaning state police).
While NY is nowhere near as big as some of the western states, it is a pretty big state, with widely varying terrain, population density, vegetation, etc. The needs of the NYSP are very different in (for example) Herkimer or Hamilton Counties versus Monroe or Ontario, not to meantion NY City!

As a result, the "who dispatches NYSP" varies as well. I can only speak directly for Monroe County, but 'back in the day' it worked as you suggest: If NYSP was needed to assist the county or one of the towns, that meant a phone call (or maybe low-band radio call) from one dispatch center to another. How is that efficient?

Today, the City of Rochester (and I believe County of Monroe) contract with the NYSP to provide primary coverage on the interstates in the county. So if there is an accident or disabled vehicle on I-490, the county or city will directly dispatch a trooper. One of the big advantages to doing it that way (other than removing the need for a phone call) is that the other law enforcement units hear the call as well and can respond if they are closer. That works in the other direction too: if a town or county unit is dispatched to a high-priority call and there is a trooper nearby they can respond as well. This system seems to work well, so the fact that it's done differently in other places doesn't really matter.

In some of the very rural counties of NY, the NYSP provides the primary (or in some cases only) law enforcement road patrol, so obviously it makes sense for them to do their own dispatching.

Very true. NYS is 20-40 Years behind. No surprise there. And yeah, it is one of the very few on that list. The only other states that have a proper statewide system in the area are CT, NJ, and PA. There are a number of other states, too, but NY is far behind. I get that the geographical size of NY State might be an issue, but other states of similar size, like PA, IL, or even CO, have accomplished it.
Perhaps drifting a bit off-topic here, but I wanted to comment on the assertion that (to paraphrase) "All of the cool states have a statewide system but NY doesn't". If I get really bored some day this week I'll look through the RR database and count how many states have a statewide system and how many don't, but for now I'll have to go on personal experience. I make long-distance drives several times a year to Virgina and Kentucky (from Rochester NY). Here's the score:

New York: No
Pennsylvania: Yes, but only used by the state police and other state agencies
Maryland: Yes, but many counties/cities have their own systems
West Virginia: Yes, but some counties do not use it
Virginia: Yes, but only used by the state police and other state agencies

Ohio: Yes, but some counties/cities have their own systems
Indiana: Yes, but some counties/cities have their own systems
Kentucky: No

I'm not sure why "Pennsylvania did it, why can't NY?" is being held up as an example, since it looks like four out of 67 (if I counted right) counties are using it. What would be the advantages to the individual counties and cities of having a single state-run system instead of them being able to implement what's best for their needs? If the argument is, "Well there should be a statewide system for the state police", why? What advantage would that provide in Monroe County?
 

k2hz

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While NY is nowhere near as big as some of the western states, it is a pretty big state, with widely varying terrain, population density, vegetation, etc. The needs of the NYSP are very different in (for example) Herkimer or Hamilton Counties versus Monroe or Ontario, not to meantion NY City!

As a result, the "who dispatches NYSP" varies as well. I can only speak directly for Monroe County, but 'back in the day' it worked as you suggest: If NYSP was needed to assist the county or one of the towns, that meant a phone call (or maybe low-band radio call) from one dispatch center to another. How is that efficient?

Today, the City of Rochester (and I believe County of Monroe) contract with the NYSP to provide primary coverage on the interstates in the county. So if there is an accident or disabled vehicle on I-490, the county or city will directly dispatch a trooper. One of the big advantages to doing it that way (other than removing the need for a phone call) is that the other law enforcement units hear the call as well and can respond if they are closer. That works in the other direction too: if a town or county unit is dispatched to a high-priority call and there is a trooper nearby they can respond as well. This system seems to work well, so the fact that it's done differently in other places doesn't really matter.

In some of the very rural counties of NY, the NYSP provides the primary (or in some cases only) law enforcement road patrol, so obviously it makes sense for them to do their own dispatching.


Perhaps drifting a bit off-topic here, but I wanted to comment on the assertion that (to paraphrase) "All of the cool states have a statewide system but NY doesn't". If I get really bored some day this week I'll look through the RR database and count how many states have a statewide system and how many don't, but for now I'll have to go on personal experience. I make long-distance drives several times a year to Virgina and Kentucky (from Rochester NY). Here's the score:

New York: No
Pennsylvania: Yes, but only used by the state police and other state agencies
Maryland: Yes, but many counties/cities have their own systems
West Virginia: Yes, but some counties do not use it
Virginia: Yes, but only used by the state police and other state agencies

Ohio: Yes, but some counties/cities have their own systems
Indiana: Yes, but some counties/cities have their own systems
Kentucky: No

I'm not sure why "Pennsylvania did it, why can't NY?" is being held up as an example, since it looks like four out of 67 (if I counted right) counties are using it. What would be the advantages to the individual counties and cities of having a single state-run system instead of them being able to implement what's best for their needs? If the argument is, "Well there should be a statewide system for the state police", why? What advantage would that provide in Monroe County?
In most counties in Central NY and the Finger Lakes region all law dispatch has been centralized at county level 911 centers for many years.

You call 911 and you get a response from the nearest or most appropriate law enforcement officer. No more deciding if you should call NYSP, the town PD or the Sheriff. With all LEOs on the same dispatch system immediate backup from the closest unit is available. What would be the point of NYSP having their own dispatch system? The expansion of regional systems such as CNYICC also makes a potential State system redundant.

The only NYSP VHF channel activity in this area is mainly administrative or internal units such as the BCI or the Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Unit.

Troop T is a special case since the limited access Thruway is generally isolated from the surrounding communities. The Troopers in Troop T are providing a contracted dedicated enforcement service for the NYSTA.
 

DaveNF2G

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NYSP wanted a statewide system that nobody else could use without permission or monitor. The State was preparing to spend $3 billion in taxpayer money on OpenSky because it was not P25, so the feds would not help to subsidize it. After the scam fell apart, a lot of employees in certain agencies were "transferred" or otherwise sanctioned.
 

sallen07

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NYSP wanted a statewide system that nobody else could use without permission or monitor. The State was preparing to spend $3 billion in taxpayer money on OpenSky because it was not P25, so the feds would not help to subsidize it. After the scam fell apart, a lot of employees in certain agencies were "transferred" or otherwise sanctioned.
Ah! Now I see why we're talking about Pennsylvania!
 
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