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TK-3810 - completely dead

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g8tzl2004

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I have just acquired a TK-3180 which does not power up. It is completely dead. No display, no LED's, no noise, no transmit.

I have another TK-3180 which works perfect so I know that the problem is not a simple battery problem. There also does not appear to be any water damage. The dead TK-3180 is actually in very good condition.

There is also good continuity between the negative battery contact and ground.

Does anybody know of any common problems with TK-3180's which result in a dead radio.

I'm thinking that maybe its a failed firmware update problem or maybe a blown fuse?

Does anybody have any idea what the problem might be and any possible fixes? If its a blown fuse is it due to a blown PA or can the fuse just fail for no reason?

Thanks
 

kayn1n32008

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A stunned radio possibly, I do not know a stunned kenwood radios behavior though.
 

mmckenna

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I don't have time to pull the schematics for that radio, but there is a fuse on the board that would cause this. That's where I'd start checking. This won't be an easy fix unless you have experience working on component level stuff.
If it isn't the fuse, it gets complicated from there, and well beyond the scope of what I can help you with on this forum. Consider sending it in to Kenwood for repair.
 

mmckenna

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Well, I found some time. F400 is a 3 amp fuse on the power input. It's on the TX/RX board. It's towards the middle of the board, near the speaker connection. There is a reverse polarity protection diode that can cause this to blow, but that would require someone hooking power up backwards. It's going to take some skill to replace. Those little chip components are not easy to work with if you don't have the right stuff.

If that doesn't fix it, you'd really be better off sending it in for repair. I'd suggest doing that anyway to prevent issues. Once you start poking around the surface mount stuff you really risk messing other stuff up.
 

g8tzl2004

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Thanks mmckenna.

OK on the 3A F400 fuse. I've downloaded a copy of the service manual and have found its location. I presume I could just short out the fuse with some thin wire as a temporary fix?

Do you know if a failed firmware update can lead to a completely dead radio or would you expect something to happen when you power up? Likewise can a faulty options board lead to a dead radio?

I've also seen dead Icom radios where you just need to reset the CPU by holding down certain keys and then connecting the battery...but I can see no CPU reset proceedure with the Kenwood.

I bought the TK3180 cheap from a hamfest with no battery..so I guess somebody could have attempted to connect up a power supply and got it wrong!!! I have a "collection" of commercial radios so I'm happy to fix the TK3180 myself (or at least try!!!)...but I want to establish if its a firmware/software/stunned/options board type issue before I open up the radio.

Also, can a blown fuse be due to a blown PA?

Thanks
 
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It doesn't always have to be that someone hooked up a power supply and blew it. I maintain our radio fleet at work. I have a handful of 2180's and a bunch of 5210's. Every once in awhile, I will end up with one that will fail to power up. Off to the depot they go. They usually are the fuse. These radios are on a non trunking system and have not been stunned. All batteries are OEM as well as the chargers.
 

ramal121

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I would NOT short across the fuse until you figure out what blew it in the first place. The fuse is easy to check with a voltmeter.

The switch is easy enough to check also. It has B+ on it, however all it does is supply voltage to an enable line on the uP.

The problem COULD be a short in the PA, or a couple of regulators that are hot all the time. Fuses blow sometimes due to hardware (screws, etc) loose and rattling around inside. Sometimes they just go open for the heck of it.

If it were me, I'd check the fuse and the switch. If both show good, to the depot it goes.

If the firmware was corrupted, I would think you would get some indication that it was trying to do something (display flicker or speaker pop at the least).
 

mmckenna

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Yep, I'd agree, don't bypass that fuse until you know what caused it to blow (if it did). Bypassing it can let more of the magic smoke out of the radio, and cause one to try and kick thine own butt for doing it.

Check the fuse with a meter, ideally remove it to check it.

These things are so chock full of SMT that I wouldn't mess with it unless I had all the right tools (which I don't) and really steady hands (which I don't anymore).
If you want to salvage the radio, let the boys in the depot take a crack at it. It'll cost, but in the end you'll get a working radio back.
 

g8tzl2004

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How do I know if the fuse blew for the heck of it or if it is due to a faulty PA or voltage regulator?

How can I tell if the PA or a voltage regulator is faulty without powering up the radio? Will I be able to measure a direct short or something in the PA or voltage regulator?

Thanks
 

mmckenna

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So, hopefully you take this in the spirit in which it is meant, and that is helpful advice:

If you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing this. I really recommend you send it on to Kenwood for repair.
 

g8tzl2004

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No problem - I really appreciate all the help and advice.

Being a radio ham I like to experiment and I have a big collection of ex commercial radios. I like to build programming cables and get the radios working on the ham bands. I find that many issues are often software or firmware related. Sometimes its a dead PA as the radio is putting out very low power..or a dead front end FET as the radio is deaf, or dirty thru pins etc etc. Although I'm no expert I can usually work out the fault by asking others who have come across the same problem many times before. Batlabs is a great resource for Motorola stuff and I have received help numerous times.

I'm keen to learn how to fix my TK3180 and it will never be sent in for repair as it will cost too much relative to what the radio cost. I will check out the fuse and switch...hopefully the fuse might just have failed for no reason...but if its due to a dead PA, I would like to learn how to check out the PA without powering up the radio...I guess I can use the impedance range on my Fluke meter to measure it or something!!
 

ramal121

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I just checked both my 2180 and 3180. With a meter I cannot detect any continuity from the battery + pin to the chassis. To blow the fuse the short would have to be a couple of ohms or less.

Good luck.
 

g8tzl2004

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I checked the continuity between ground and the +ve positive terminal.

On the dead TK3180 there was an impedance reading of around 1K ohms

On my good working TK3180 it is around 500K ohms (or no continuity on some lower impredance scales)

I also noticed that the battery in the dead radio is now completely flat ie 0v even though the radio is switched off.

Anybody know what sort of fault completely drains the battery?

If the fault is a shorted PA would the TK3180 still power up OK rather than being dead?

As previously suggested, maybe its a faulty voltage regulator?

Any other ideas?
 

ramal121

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So have you determined the health of the fuse? If it is open then the only thing between the fuse and the batt contact is three SMT caps. I guess one could be leaky but it's highly unlikely. If you have 1K to ground on the bad radio (compared to a much much higher resistance on mine and your good one) it's not much, about 7 mA, but will drag a battery down given a few days.

To find out if there is a short or some some kind of excessive current draw you can try this. With your good portable, rig up a way to run it on a power supply (7.5 volt) or with the battery off the radio. You may have to get inventive with stripped wires and black tape and such, but see what you can do. Now hook up a meter in the positive power lead and measure the current draw as the radio powers up and goes idle. You would expect to see about the same on the bad radio. But before you try the bad radio, also connect in series on the power lead a small light bulb. A 47 bulb would be great but a small one like what's in a car glove box will do. Now hook up the bad radio and check current during power up using the bulb as a safety current limiting device.. If it is higher than the good radio or the bulb burns normally bright, STOP! The radio is pulling excessive current and components could be damaged. Troubleshooting this will require isolating circuits to see which branch is defective. Almost impossible in this radio save for a few things (like the PA by yanking the b+ feed). Even Kenwood depot, I would suspect, will throw up their hands and slap in a new TX/RX board and charge accordingly. Way too time consuming to be cost effective.

Now on the other side of the coin, you can measure little or no current while you try a power up. This is perfectly safe. You can now leave the power switch on, grab the schematic and the x-rays, and start working backwards with a voltmeter to try and figure out what is lacking (to the best of your abilities that is). I'll take mmckenna's route, check the fuse and switch. If it's beyond that, I don't have the time, the eyesight, nor the equipment to cost effectively try a component level repair. Depot it is.

But it does sound like you have sand, so here's my swag. If you confirm the fuse and switch are good, I would think the uP is not responding to the power on input, and the first place I'd look is the supply voltages that run it and the voltage regulators tied to that. I learned a long time ago as a FNG on the bench, if you stuck and don't know where to go, basic voltage checks usually lead to something.

Good luck to you.

P.S. Makes me think of a good antidote concerning shorts. Motorola Micors with a clamshell control head. They had a protection diode in the control head that would occasionally short, blow the ignition sense fuse and the radio would cease to power up. Now the righteous thing to do would be to split the head, replace the bad diode and the fuse, reassemble and close the call. I had a senior tech show me this (swear to god). The "easy" fix was to put a paper clip in the fuse holder, blow the shorted diode to kingdom come, install a new fuse in the holder and head out for an early lunch.
 
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g8tzl2004

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Many thanks Ramal121 for the suggestions - its much appreciated.

I was reading up on the location of the fuse when I checked the battery and found that it was completely flat. That made me think that the fuse was probably OK. As you say. maybe its a leaky cap..but I just assumed that a blown fuse would mean that the radio would no longer be drawing power from the battery - so if the battery is flat then the fuse must be OK??

Anyway, I will check out the fuse and switch and then check the current consumption.

OK on the Micors - I think a small staple rather than a paper clip will work better with the Kenwood!!!!! :)
 
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