Toronto, ON: Police radio to go silent as Toronto cops move toward encrypted communic

[SCPD]

They already said that CREST will encrypt police traffic, as well as fire and ambulance.

It's really too bad. I enjoy knowing what's going on in the community and around here you're lucky if you get a poorly written watered down version of it in the news 24 hrs later. The vast majority of small incidents go unreported.

If I'm correct, CREST is a VHF system like Ontario Fleetnet and our Fleetnet should be fully converted as well and encrpyted for police and probably ambulance and MTO and others as well, there is no point encrypting police if tow trucks and others can hear sometimes the same calls on other services.

Hamilton encrypted everything including the water works department, no local news reporting there and no tow trucks chasing you down if you have an accident. Some of those guys are just terrifying and good luck finding your car later if you have to go in the ambulance.

Sad for those who like to listen and be aware of news and to be aware when there is a bad guy on the loose or something just down the street from you, that's why I like to have a scanner on. There is nothing in the news anymore but if I hear some things going on near home I can be a bit more careful.

 

[EJB]

A bit dramatic no? There is nothing in our constitution or in the BNA act that eludes to the citizens watching the watcher so to speak.

The police want to conduct their affairs in private, the technology is there, they (we) can afford it and when push comes to shove there aren't enough of us to change anything.

Ya it sucks, when I moved to Toronto in 1993 it was a treat to finally be able to listen to Metro in English (I came from Montreal, most comms were in French). We had a good long run.

And hopefully we keep the EMS and Fire. It could be worse.

 

[Harvester]

Hi, so will there be any way in the future for us to gain access to these encrypted channels? I have just got my BCD396XT radio programmed and working again and there is very little to listen to. This is very dissapointing!

 

[torontokris]

There wont be a Uniden/Whistler scanner that decodes current levels of encryption... its illegal to decode.
For now listen to TPS its in the clear, Peel Fire (digital), EMS (across the GTA) Airplanes, GO Transit (mostly phase 2) OPP (digital)

Hi, so will there be any way in the future for us to gain access to these encrypted channels? I have just got my BCD396XT radio programmed and working again and there is very little to listen to. This is very dissapointing!

 

[slicerwizard]

There wont be a Uniden/Whistler scanner that decodes current levels of encryption

C'mon Kris, we know you have access to the special scanners! Don't make us deal with that Radioworld guy...

 

[EJB]

C'mon Kris, we know you have access to the special scanners! Don't make us deal with that Radioworld guy...

That's why that tunnel was made, it was to run from Radioworld and he could walk right in during the 19 hours of a work day that Radio World isn't open and bring out the new GPS/DSD/Encryption breaking scanners.

 

[The_B_Chief]

“Anything that is encrypted can be cracked.” Um, okay. Idiot.

I used to think the same thing but with all the agencies switching to encryption, it has made it even easier to decode ADP and DES. Even more so with these newer digital scanners and SDR devices coming out. The problem is that it is still considered illegal in most places.

I remember a time many years ago when P16 and P25 were considered "encryption" as well. So its just a matter of time before the current protocols are mainstreamed.

 

[Forts]

Encryption isn't a protocol to add to a scanner like digital voice, or a plugin to add to SDR sharp. Even with the weakest encryption (ADP) you are looking at over a trillion possible keys. And when it comes to DES and AES, there's a reason those ciphers were (and are) used for top secret information. These are not trivial systems to break... It will NEVER be done with a scanner or any sort of consumer grade hardware. Period.

 

[The_B_Chief]

Encryption isn't a protocol to add to a scanner like digital voice, or a plugin to add to SDR sharp. Even with the weakest encryption (ADP) you are looking at over a trillion possible keys. And when it comes to DES and AES, there's a reason those ciphers were (and are) used for top secret information. These are not trivial systems to break... It will NEVER be done with a scanner or any sort of consumer grade hardware. Period.

I do apologize for the use of the incorrect term. I do understand that its not a software or firmware upgrade. And I completely feel what you are saying but......

ADP and DES are able to be decoded with some ease now. It's not something that I would ever dream of doing or messing with, however it is possible. From what we are hearing now, a trillion possible keys isn't even a lot anymore.

I was in the same boat of disbelief until I saw it with my own eyes. It was demonstrated at a Law Enforcement seminar by those that have been given the authority to do so. It was all in an effort to inform the Law Enforcement community that their "Secure" radio traffic will not be so Secure" for long. They also did a Tetra demo that pretty much blew every radio nerd in the rooms mind.

I still can't believe it.

 

[Forts]

This is true, and there's lots that could certainly be discussed about it but I fear this topic is veering too off course as it is (as usually happens with any thread talking about encryption!). Ultimately I can't help but think the vast majority of these agencies main goal is to lock out scanners and streamers. If they accomplish that, they are happy.

 

[mikewazowski]

Let's try and keep this thread focused on Toronto.

Thanks.

 

[HiVolt]

I wonder if they will keep the 52 division conventional analog subway patches... at least could listen to some things on it. Sometimes they forget and they leave the other subway patch channels on for a while.

 

[KV4BL]

Will It Affect Goings On In Division 15?

I wonder if this will add to the rumors that Rooki Blue is about to be cancelled. I always liked the brief fills of what sounded like actual police radio traffic between scenes on that show. Been a while since I heard it, but there used to be a Morse "b" or maybe a "7" tranmitted with that background radio traffic. I always wondered if that was the channel number.

 

[n2jtx]

I have family in Mississauga but I never had the time to try scanning while I was there as there were other things to do. Where I live on Long Island, Nassau County has encrypted all PD traffic on their brand spanking new P25 system. There are a few village PD's still running their own analog systems but eventually they will be switched to the county system and gone forever.

I believe the day will come when, despite the legal issues, decrypting encrypted digital traffic will be easily possible. Computers are getting more powerful every day and research into quantum computing would pretty much render most encryption systems used today broken. I recall back in the 1980's when trunked radio systems started hitting the scene. It was thought back then that it was then end of hobbyist scanning. There were "tricks" to try and follow a conversion using a regular scanner but it was difficult and systems like EDACS added funky tones at the end of conversations to thwart the instant switching of a scanner to another channel. Then manufacturers started developing trunk capable scanners and the party was on again. It will most likely be an arms race as encryption keys will get longer and computers to crack them more powerful. Still as another poster has noted, anything that is encrypted can be broken eventually.

 

[DMRAPX]

You can't get around the legal issue.

 

[bigcam406]

its only illegal if you get caught.

 

[exkalibur]

Posting about it on here is a good way to not get caught.

 

[bigcam406]

41 and 42 divisions have migrated over to encrypted comms as of 0200.its the beginning of the end my friends....

 

[bigcam406]

43 div migrating to encrypted comms as of 0235

 

[exkalibur]

As of 4:30am, the following have been appearing encrypted:

TAVIS (TG 405)
68-ETF
6E-FLT
11-D11
12-D12
14-D14
22-D22
23-D23
31-D31
32-D32
33-D33
41-D41
42-D42
43-D43
52-D52