Toronto Transit Commission - PowerTrunk TETRA

[Ubbe]

Has anyone figured out how to get anything to make this work? basically no comm coming thru unless it happens to be assigned to Time slot 4.

They can't use just one slot for calls or they will get a lot of busys. They need to use several frequencies at one site and then you'll need to use Tetra Trunk Tracker to follow the calls from the MCCH frequency to other frequencies where the calls take place.

My local system use 4 frequencies with 16 slots at most sites with 2 SCCH on 2 or 3 of the frequencies and are impossible to track without using the TTT program.

/Ubbe

 

[HiVolt]

Yeah they've been operating with 1 for well over a year here... I dunno maybe i'm just not doing something right here, but I have 2 SDRs and the TTT thing just isnt working. all the green dots say its connected, but its only ever reading anything from the main one in timeslot 4.

I think this system could be quirky, maybe not quite standard as the european ones? There are also long delays before it "releases" a call sometimes. I tried to change the timeout but it doesnt seem to affect it.

 

[HiVolt]

OK I think I've got TTT working now. I started from scratch with a fresh copy and I think this time it works, I can see it switching to one of the alternate control channels, and the voice calls are coming thru it now. I have to get another SDR so I can convert the TTC streamer machine to use this. One plus will be metadata tags I guess.

Hopefully Malvern doesnt switch to this multi control channel layout in the next week or so, right now i'm streaming off that instead of Birchmount.

 

[HiVolt]

Has anyone monitoring the east end on the Malvern frequency 423.8000 noticed that it's gone off the air since mid of last week?

I think I first noticed it Wednesday Sep 29. Hasn't been back since.

 

[HiVolt]

Hmm, still nothing on the old Malvern frequency, but I seem to have a discovered a new frequency not previously used, 423.4875.

Signal is a bit weaker for me than Malvern was, perhaps this is McNicoll garage, maybe they've retired Malvern transmitter? This frequency has 3 control channels, Malvern never did get upgraded to that.

 

[HiVolt]

It appears I'm still getting Malvern Garage chatter on this new frequency, so maybe they just assigned a new frequency and control channels.

The signal is much better today so maybe they are still tweaking it.

 

[HiVolt]

I've also seen Tetra Trunk Tracker switch over to a secondary frequency, so it's definitely working. Not sure if this has 3rd, but i'll update if I see it.

Main - 423.4875
Alt - 423.5875

 

[mjf]

This is what I can hear in central-west Etobicoke:

LA	Frequencies
27	422.6625	423.4125	423.5125
28	422.6875	423.5625
29	412.9625	423.6125	423.7125
32	423.2875	412.1125
33	413.1875	423.4625
34	423.2625	423.5375	423.6625
35	412.0375	423.3125
36	413.1875	423.3375	423.4375	423.6375

There are a few differences from the RR db so somebody else may want to double-check.

 

[Ubbe]

LA	Frequencies
29	412.0375	423.3125
36	413.1875	423.3375	423.4375	423.6375

A Tetra system cannot have both + and - shift of the TX/RX frequencies. You must have monitored the input frequency at some sites. It's probably only the 420MHz frequencies you should focus on. When you monitor a voice frequency with SDR# and TTT it will automatically move you to the control channel of that site. So go thru all frequencies that you see in the 420-430MHz range in the SDR# spectrum display and see what control channel it moves you to. Then you'll find what voice channels that belongs to which site. If you are not moved to another frequency then you are either on a control channel frequency or you are monitoring a call or a data transmission and have to wait until it is idle, or the decode quality are bad at 80% or lower. Change to different gain settings in SDR# to get the best decode % .

/Ubbe

 

[mjf]

No, those are valid frequency ranges here. 410.0125 to 414.9875 with inputs from 415.0125 to 419.9875 (+5 MHz). 421.0125 to 423.9875 with inputs from 426.0125 to 428.9875 (+5 MHz).

412.0375 and 413.1875 are both former TTC conventional repeater output frequencies.

 

[HiVolt]

Looks like the Scarborough RT line has switched to TETRA operation as of this morning, I heard a lot of testing yesterday. There doesn't appear to be individual point to point transmission, just a general line broadcast like on the analog system. It kind of makes sense because there's only like maximum of 5 trains at any given time on a good day.

TG's as follows

100005 - McCowan SRT Yard
100030 - SRT Line Broadcast
100039 - SRT Line PA

Individual car #'s
1213xxx - SRT cars 3000-34 (could be more just haven't shown up yet)

So far picking up well from both Birchmount & Malvern towers.

 

[HiVolt]

Also I'm not sure if I mentioned before, the Malvern frequencies have changed.

Main 423.4875
Alt 423.5875
Alt 423.7625

 

[mciupa]

I've been listening more frequently to this system and have noticed talkgroup 115000 come up. They are mentioning Laird, Leaside and other locations.
For those who follow TTC on TETRA do you believe these are Line 5 Eglinton Crosstown related? We have no talkgroups in the 11XXXX bloc.

 

[HiVolt]

Yes, that is the Crosstown. I've even spotted 116000 which might be the Finch LRT.

I have a crapload of new talkgroups identified, I will try to post an update.

 

[mciupa]

They are ramping up the training on Line 5. Quite busy conversing with the Back Up Operations Centre.(BOCC).

 

[mjf]

I put this list together using information on this site, TAFL and monitoring. This is more complete than the current RR listing. I can only hear a few of these sites so I can't confirm this 100% by monitoring.

Has anyone found a talkgroup for Queensway division buses? I suspect they don't use voice very much now since I actually haven't heard any buses at all on this system.

Site Name (from TAFL)	LA	Frequencies
CN Tower surface station	27	422.6625	423.4125	423.5125
TTC Surface site Finch	28	422.6875	423.3875	423.5625
Shipp	29	412.9625	423.6125	423.7125
Malvern Complex	30	423.4875	423.5875	423.7625
Greenwood	31	412.0625	412.2125	412.6125
Hillcrest	32	412.1125	423.2875	423.6875
Wilson	33	413.1875	423.3625	423.4625
McBrien	34	423.2625	423.5375	423.6625
Arrow	35	412.0375	423.3125	423.7375
Birchmount	36	423.3375	423.4375	423.6375
Kennedy surface site		412.0375	423.3125	423.7375
McNicoll garage indoor site		422.8000	423.1250
Surface BS-Leslie Barns		423.0125	423.2375
Crossrail/EMSF* surface site		423.4875	423.5875	423.7625
SRT Line 3 mobiles		423.4875	423.5875	423.7625
* EMSF = Eglinton Maintenance and Storage Facility

 

[mciupa]

Listening to talkgroup 120106. Definitely Electronics Tech's. Possibly working on the guts of a PRESTO gate.
Also Line 6, Finch West LRT is on the air from time to time.

 

[mciupa]

Has anyone found a talkgroup for Queensway division buses? I suspect they don't use voice very much now since I actually haven't heard any buses at all on this system.

What I can tell you is that I have these unidentified talk groups in the "Garage" range

• 101158
• 101160
• 101161
• 101165
• 101168

I'll give these more attention as I would also like to identify Arrow, Keele, Eglinton as well as Queensway.

The only time I hear anything bus related is the Private (Duplex) calls where we only hear the Supervisor in the clear and the transit operator in the background.

 

[mciupa]

They are extensively testing Line 5 from Mount Dennis to Laird today.

 

[HiVolt]

What I can tell you is that I have these unidentified talk groups in the "Garage" range

• 101158
• 101160
• 101161
• 101165
• 101168

I'll give these more attention as I would also like to identify Arrow, Keele, Eglinton as well as Queensway.

The only time I hear anything bus related is the Private (Duplex) calls where we only hear the Supervisor in the clear and the transit operator in the background.

I think that 61 is Eglinton, 58 is Wilson, from what I have entered into my TetraTrunktracker. I think the way I identified them was the garage techs talking about bus # being done or needing work, then looking up the bus # on transsee on the map.

I don't discover much these days because I am streaming the TTC feed from the same hardware.