Transients/homeless jumping trains with radios

[Giddyuptd]

What is the rail fans opinion or thought on this growing trend of transients using scanners, baofengs to monitor, evade rail crews and jump trains.

Talking to a couple persons I know in a big rail road said it is alarming to them and they wish the road channels had nxdn with encryption which their second thought is if some are doing that, who else is monitoring for theft and criminal activity. One being a district manager made comment he felt rail roads should be as they are major infrastructure but he knows the cost and problem of switching out everyone on a new platform.

While the thread isn't for encryption it's mainly for your thoughts as rail fans on the issue such as videos like this that surface,

 

[INDY72]

There are some pros that do this. And the most famous hobo vlogger: Stobie the Hobo though he never uses radios or scanners. And then there is a group of college friends that did it on a lark, and got arrested when the train was stopped by a forest fire. Entire online video production companies exist for this. Rode Out On A Rail being the biggest.

 

[iMONITOR]

I don't think hobos, thieves and other common criminals should be their main concern. I think trains are a much bigger vunerability from a homeland security threat! Just about any form of WOMD could be rapidly transported inland throughout our nation! I think most train routing and whereabouts are aggressively monitored from above via helicopters, and satellites as well.

 

[INDY72]

Terrorists use attacks to cause terror... A random train gong boom is not terror. They would have to make sure the car they plant a bomb on is going to a very public place with large amount of casualty guaranteed. Now taking an Amtrak and blowing it up in like NOLA or LA, or Chicago would be a valid targeting methodology. Using the freight rail system as a weapon is too random. And trying to arrange an runaway to cause mass casualty event would take even more training and preparation than 9-11 did. Its still far easier to hijack a bus or plane and make things go boom or scare everyone with threat of boom, or blast a church than it would ever be to use the rail system. The fear with rail issues is the loss of profits due to theft, damages, etc... Idiots playing around with rolling stock causes more damage yearly than has ever been caused by a single person actually planning to do harm on rails.

 

[iMONITOR]

Just a 'boom' is not my concern, but a nuclear dirty bomb, liquid or gaseous bomb releasing contamination in our atmosphere of water/food supplies along the way could be devastating! As for random, I think that's what terrorist prefer. If it wasn't random it would be predictable. Personally I don't think the attack on 9/11 was as complicated as some would like us to believe. I think our government was caught completely off guard and clueless as to how to respond.

 

[AK9R]

I don't think hobos, thieves and other common criminals should be their main concern. I think trains are a much bigger vunerability from a homeland security threat!

Which might be a good topic for another thread.

As the OP stated in their first sentence: "What is the rail fans opinion or thought on this growing trend of transients using scanners, baofengs to monitor, evade rail crews and jump trains."

 

[Giddyuptd]

Good points.

I was pondering it after seeing the video then hearing comments from few one being a engineer that felt in easy knowing some one is using the radio waves to hop his train.

His concern was the person falling then the whole investigation and process he'd have to go through then wondering if anyone else is doing monitoring for criminal purposes.

He never has had issue with rail fans or pictures as he hopes to see himself in a magazine or site that focuses on rail road buffs.

 

[wtp]

why worry about trains and WOMD, they can just uber.

 

[radioman2001]

If you are going to put that much effort and planning into some attack, listening to rail traffic isn't going to give you much. As far as trespassers you are never going to stop that, as there is too much territory to secure. You could do an inspection somewhere in the middle of nowhere to catch them, but that takes too much resources and delays transport of goods which is then loss of money.
Most RR PD's are going "E" as ours is very shortly.

 

[Giddyuptd]

If you are going to put that much effort and planning into some attack, listening to rail traffic isn't going to give you much. As far as trespassers you are never going to stop that, as there is too much territory to secure. You could do an inspection somewhere in the middle of nowhere to catch them, but that takes too much resources and delays transport of goods which is then loss of money.
Most RR PD's are going "E" as ours is very shortly.

Yeah there are a couple big rail entities near here going secure for their LE operations and admin type stuff.

 

[prcguy]

I believe using a radio receiver to evade police during a crime is a federal crime in itself. Burglars, etc, using police scanners can have extra charges tossed on but I never hear about these existing laws being used. I wonder why not?

 

[radioman2001]

Too much trouble proving the use at the time of the crime. You almost have to have witnessed the event to meet the criteria of actually committing the crime, and possession doesn't mean actually using. Plus I think most prosecutors have no idea how to actually prosecutor this, but they may add the charge as a bargaining chip in negotiations. NYC has a possession law (which I think is BS, but a very soon moot point due to "E"), and all the possession cases I have heard of in the past always result in that charge being dropped.

 

[wwhitby]

FWIW, I've seen some of the videos. Those guys didn't strike me as typical hobos, and they're much different from the ones that i've encountered in the past. They appeared to be either thrill seekers, or folks doing it to become "Internet Famous." IMHO, it would be hard to find a real honest to goodness hobo with a GoPro and scanner, solar battery charger, and the other gear that they have.

If the railroads wanted to put a stop to this behavior, don't encrypt, but flag the videos on YouTube and then go after any production companies.

 

[phask]

I believe using a radio receiver to evade police during a crime is a federal crime in itself. Burglars, etc, using police scanners can have extra charges tossed on but I never hear about these existing laws being used. I wonder why not?

Not a Federal crime, at least that I have ever heard of. Even if so, it would be next to impossible to prosecute as a Fed. Crime.

State crime in many or most states.

 

[prcguy]

Doing a quick search on using a police scanner in the commission of a crime, I find its listed as a punishable crime under FCC rules and also US code and most state laws with some big penalties. There were way too many hits to post links here but it seems like a shoe in for a prosecutor to add extra charges for using police scanner in commission of a crime.

My question still stands, why aren't people being charged with this?

Not a Federal crime, at least that I have ever heard of. Even if so, it would be next to impossible to prosecute as a Fed. Crime.

State crime in many or most states.

 

[phask]

Doing a quick search on using a police scanner in the commission of a crime, I find its listed as a punishable crime under FCC rules and also US code and most state laws with some big penalties. There were way too many hits to post links here but it seems like a shoe in for a prosecutor to add extra charges for using police scanner in commission of a crime.

My question still stands, why aren't people being charged with this?

Probably for a myriad of reasons, including not familiar with the law.

At least in my area, it's the prosecutor who lays the charges, and piles on the dozens of charges, then pleas down to one or 2 of the main one.

I see it all the time with firearms, they tack on all the firearms charges on a drug bust, then more or less throw them out and prosecute the drug charges.

Just remember, excepting Federal, - all law enforcement is local, some more local than others

 

[spacellamaman]

you think it's bad now???

just wait til someone tells em about bandannas and horses....

and six-shooters.....

does all that stuff makes a scanner irrelevant, or perhaps i am thinking too hard

 

[w4amp]

Doing a quick search on using a police scanner in the commission of a crime, I find its listed as a punishable crime under FCC rules and also US code and most state laws with some big penalties. There were way too many hits to post links here but it seems like a shoe in for a prosecutor to add extra charges for using police scanner in commission of a crime.

My question still stands, why aren't people being charged with this?

Apathy. It's what's for dinner.

 

[JasonTracy]

As someone that railfans on occasion, I don't get how using the radios really helps stowaways, other than policing actions.
You know the train is coming when you hear the horn from miles and miles away. It is plenty of time to make it to a spot that you know the trains always go slow at, such as a turn.
Here in Indiana, the railroads have several railroad police talkgroups on the statewide public safety Hoosier SAFE-T system, with encryption available if they wanted it. That said, a P25 scanner is expensive enough that I don't think you need to worry about a stowaway having one.
Just allocate more TG's for other railroad police to use, and have the crews carry a P25 handheld for enforcement actions. That way they don't have to do the expensive NXDN migration.

 

[radioman2001]

When it comes to radios nowadays to listen to nalog or digital you don't need a $500.00 scanner, you just use your Obama phone and the app for the agecny you want to listen. It frosts me that the homeless have free phones that I pay for in my bill and taxes.