Travis County Sheriff

[cferguson4809]

I’ve been monitoring TCSO Baker-East (TGID 2403) and I’m observing what appears to be partial or one-sided traffic.

Sometimes I only hear dispatch transmissions. For example, dispatch will say something like: “Dispatch, 5-Baker 12, show you out on a traffic stop at [location]” but I never heard the unit make the stop initially. A short time later dispatch will transmit something like: “Copy 5-Baker 12, code 4” but I never heard the unit call code 4.

Occasionally I do hear field units, so it’s not strictly dispatch-only, but it is inconsistent. I’ve noticed similar behavior with DPS Troopers, as well as Manor and Mustang Ridge units.

Another thing I’ve observed is dispatch calling Charlie units over the radio while I’m monitoring Baker-East. I never hear responses from those units. My assumption is that the dispatcher position has both Baker and Charlie talkgroups selected, so dispatch audio is being multicast to both.

However, that still doesn’t explain why I’m frequently missing the field unit side of Baker-East traffic, or why the same thing appears to occur with Mustang Ridge units. For reference, I am also scanning the Mustang Ridge talk groups.

Is this expected behavior on this system? I’m wondering if it could be related to things like:

1. subscriber radios affiliating to a different site
2. units switching to another talk group for replies
3. officer initiated activity on the MDT and possibly a code 4 button on the MDT
4. possible encryption on some unit transmissions

For reference, I am monitoring the Travis County P25 system from the southeast Travis County area.

Has anyone else monitoring this system observed similar behavior?

 

[rlopez28]

When you are hearing dispatch acknowledge a unit on traffic they have initiated a stop via MDC, same as a code 4 acknowledgment. Dispatch is required to update over the air for other units and supervisors to audibly hear.

You are hearing Charlie units on Baker because Baker radio dispatches all east units (Baker and Charlie). Same as if you were listening to Adam radio which dispatches all of west (Adam and David).

#3 is definitely a factor with #4 starting to loom. I believe that some units and TG have gone to encryption and havent been updated yet on RR. CVE, SWAT...both encrypted.

 

[garys]

I don't know how the Travis CAD works, but another county can and does initiate stops on CAD. Which sets other actions on the system into motion. Most records and wanted checks are done on MDC these days. I do hear checks over the air on DPS TGs and I think Bastrop County units as well.

I'm not editorializing when I say that the use of computers and smart phones makes encryption for the most part unnecessary. The system I was given a tour of, which I'm not going to name, automatically alerts nearby units of a traffic stop and users can look at the locations of most of the other units operating in the county on their MDC. Calls for assistance are automatically routed to nearby units via CAD.

Units can be dispatched to calls via MDC as well if they are in their vehicle.

Depending on the brand of CAD system, they can do all or most of that from the agency smart phones. Every police officer I've ever known, which is a lot, has two phones. One for work, one for personal use.

Every encrypted agency could turn off their encryption and we'd still not be able to hear sensitive comms.

 

[Montz816]

@rlopez28 is 100% correct speaking as a 9-1-1 dispatcher for PD and EMS in Austin Travis Co and at one point worked very very closely with TCSO. Any officer initiated or on sight via MDT is rebroadcast over channel for accountability and for units who could be driving and didn't see the officer initiated on screen. Also dispatch will alert the officer if they see something on the LP or DL that needs their attention. For instance "5-David-20 are you clear of that LTC" or "Park-32 are you clear on that hit" (clear meaning aware, see, understand) (hit meaning warrant) this is done so that if the officer ran the LP or DL then walked away from screen.

If you are listening to ATX add A1 R LE 01 which is referred to as "Regional Law 1" which is very often patched to APD, DPS, RRPD, etc.. even though Austin PD is encrypted now when patched it is in the clear. Instances in which these patches happen in pursuits it has pretty much became 2nd habit to patch or switch to Reg law 1 since it is a system wide channel to comply with interoperability framework.

 

[garys]

After the July floods I programmed all of the Interop TGs used in the Travis/Williamson/Bastrop area into my scanners. There is some very interesting radio traffic from time to time. I find it oddly ironic that radio traffic that I would expect to be encrypted is in the clear.

There are also a lot of brush fire operations on the Interop TGs as well.

 

[cferguson4809]

@rlopez28 is 100% correct speaking as a 9-1-1 dispatcher for PD and EMS in Austin Travis Co and at one point worked very very closely with TCSO. Any officer initiated or on sight via MDT is rebroadcast over channel for accountability and for units who could be driving and didn't see the officer initiated on screen. Also dispatch will alert the officer if they see something on the LP or DL that needs their attention. For instance "5-David-20 are you clear of that LTC" or "Park-32 are you clear on that hit" (clear meaning aware, see, understand) (hit meaning warrant) this is done so that if the officer ran the LP or DL then walked away from screen.

If you are listening to ATX add A1 R LE 01 which is referred to as "Regional Law 1" which is very often patched to APD, DPS, RRPD, etc.. even though Austin PD is encrypted now when patched it is in the clear. Instances in which these patches happen in pursuits it has pretty much became 2nd habit to patch or switch to Reg law 1 since it is a system wide channel to comply with interoperability framework

I am a paramedic in Bastrop, I also work part time in Creedmoor for a private company so I have just recently been listening to SO Baker, Fire East, and Medcom East

 

[wtp]

it sounds like a simulcast problem.
sometimes you hear them, then you don't.
what are you using to hear them ?

 

[cferguson4809]

it sounds like a simulcast problem.
sometimes you hear them, then you don't.
what are you using to hear them ?

An affiliated APX7000

 

[KTR722]

TCSO is migrating to ENC. Not that you can listen to it but TG 2437 is TRV SO ADM* and TG 2438 is TRV SO BKR*.

 

[cferguson4809]

TCSO is migrating to ENC. Not that you can listen to it but TG 2437 is TRV SO ADM* and TG 2438 is TRV SO BKR*.

I was hearing rumors. I am hoping that my agency decides we don't need LE because they always make things worse when they reprogram.

 

[kmartin]

So has TXDPS district 6 in Travis county gone fully E ?

 

[cferguson4809]

So has TXDPS district 6 in Travis county gone fully E ?

No, DPS has different talkgroups. From what I have heard, they have no desire to go E. Keeping traffic stops secret does not outweigh the headache of dealing with interoperability.

 

[kmartin]

Do you happen to know which talk group DPS uses for guadalupe county ?
Going on vacation there this weekend

 

[cferguson4809]

That’s DPS San Antonio traffic. You’ll mainly hear it on DPS “A” and “C” VHF channels.

What you’re seeing on LCRA (GCSO) is just the troops letting the county know what they are doing, usually TGIDs 8004–8021.

 

[kmartin]

Okay. Thanks 👍

 

[cferguson4809]

If Baker is considered “East,” then what exactly is Charlie?

I was listening to the radio at work and heard dispatch say:
“Show you en route to a priority one collision with injuries in Charlie 40 at 1507 FM 1327.”

A short time later, they advised:
“Charlie 20 is en route to the collision.”

Based on location alone, that area seems like it should fall in Charlie district. However, everyone I’ve talked to insists it’s actually Baker.

 

[willdanl]

I saw a map once that I cannot now recall where - but there are four divisions beginning in the NW quadrant going clockwise: Adam, Baker, Charlie and David. So Baker and Charlie are both on the east side on Baker radio, Adam and David on the west on Adam radio. If you look at the TG listings you will see TG for all 4, as if maybe (I am speculating) there was a “dispatch” for each at one time and they’ve consolidated into west and east, yet maintaining those patrol map designations. If I recall I used to hear occasional traffic on David (I listen to west mostly) but I don’t even have it in my scan list any more.

 

[garys]

I thought I had a map as you describe, but it's not in the scanner directory on my hard drive. At least I can't find it there. Which is strange as I never delete files and have scanner guides going back to the mid 1990s. IIRC, when GATTRS first went on line all four TGs were in use, but given how large Austin itself has got and with more cities being created it's not a surprise that the territory patrolled by TCSO has shrunk.

Also there is a map online at Travis County Sheriff Districts | Travis County Sheriff's Office, Texas

Or this, Map Viewer

 

[kmartin]

If Baker is considered “East,” then what exactly is Charlie?

I was listening to the radio at work and heard dispatch say:
“Show you en route to a priority one collision with injuries in Charlie 40 at 1507 FM 1327.”

A short time later, they advised:
“Charlie 20 is en route to the collision.”

Based on location alone, that area seems like it should fall in Charlie district. However, everyone I’ve talked to insists it’s actually Baker.

Keep in mind that districts and unit numbers can be subject to change , it's listeners like yourself that could find out new stuff like this , keep logging what you are hearing , if I might suggest start with one district/ or channel / and write down the locations that units are dispatched to , it takes some time to do this, but you might find they have switched things up ! And you might be able to share with the rest of us the results of your findings .
In Galveston county where I live I posted unit numbers / channel assignments on the county Wikipedia , I spent days working on a unit numbering list for each region in the county for both dispatch channels, this was about 2 years ago , but along came the new sheriff earlier this year and jumbled up everything ! Changed dispatch channels / and assigned units completely different unit numbering ! I've had to start all over, I'm still working on all this it isn't easy but keep at it !

 

[anthobaca2]

When you are hearing dispatch acknowledge a unit on traffic they have initiated a stop via MDC, same as a code 4 acknowledgment. Dispatch is required to update over the air for other units and supervisors to audibly hear.

You are hearing Charlie units on Baker because Baker radio dispatches all east units (Baker and Charlie). Same as if you were listening to Adam radio which dispatches all of west (Adam and David).

#3 is definitely a factor with #4 starting to loom. I believe that some units and TG have gone to encryption and havent been updated yet on RR. CVE, SWAT...both encrypted.

Thats actually an awesome idea. Which we had that policy in the Metroplex before I retired.

@rlopez28 is 100% correct speaking as a 9-1-1 dispatcher for PD and EMS in Austin Travis Co and at one point worked very very closely with TCSO. Any officer initiated or on sight via MDT is rebroadcast over channel for accountability and for units who could be driving and didn't see the officer initiated on screen. Also dispatch will alert the officer if they see something on the LP or DL that needs their attention. For instance "5-David-20 are you clear of that LTC" or "Park-32 are you clear on that hit" (clear meaning aware, see, understand) (hit meaning warrant) this is done so that if the officer ran the LP or DL then walked away from screen.

If you are listening to ATX add A1 R LE 01 which is referred to as "Regional Law 1" which is very often patched to APD, DPS, RRPD, etc.. even though Austin PD is encrypted now when patched it is in the clear. Instances in which these patches happen in pursuits it has pretty much became 2nd habit to patch or switch to Reg law 1 since it is a system wide channel to comply with interoperability framework.

I retired as a DFW metroplex cop. You all have a really cool policy there. When we marked out by MDT others could see it if looking at an MDT but anyone just on radio and away from a computer would never know.
It’s interesting how all these different TX agencies have best practices but we don’t do a good job sharing them.
I remember years ago, I was responding code to a domestic in process with a gun. I am trying to run code 3 in DFW traffic, put on my plate carrier, release my rifle, and dispatch was doing AMAZING play by play updates as we are responding but they were all coming across the computer where I had to read them while doing everything else. Later when I moved 1 county east (still here in the metroplex), it was policy ALL play by play updates had to be transmitted over the radio for in progress calls.