Pro-651: Trunked System Scanning Issues

[biz42]

Hello,

I recently purchased a Pro-651 and can't seem to receive transmissions when scanning Trunked Systems. I tried this in two locations with the same results.

The first Trunked System is "State of Delaware Public Safety" New Castle County. I first manually programmed the control channel and both alternate channels in Scan List No. 1. I left the default Talkgroup as "Wildcard" as it's my understanding that all Talkgroups on the system will be monitored. No transmissions were received. I verified that Scan List No. 1 was on.

I then added the remaining voice channels in my area to the Trunked System. Still, no transmissions were received.

I then substituted Talkgroup "Wildcard" with specific Talkgroups in my area. No transmissions were received.

I then tried a search using the lower and upper ranges of the Trunked System and DID receive transmissions. Some of the transmissions were clear and some were encrypted.

Question 1: Is "State of Delaware Public Safety" a 3600 system?

Question 2: Both of the Trunked Systems that I tried to scan have been rebanded. Does this model require a custom table entry? I entered the following custom table with no success:

ChLO ChHI Step Offset Base
440 559 25.000 440 851.025000
000 719 25.000 0 851.012500

Question 3: I've verified that the L/O list is empty. Are there any other settings that would cause this issue?

Programming cable is in the mail...hopefully that will give me a better understanding of the issue.

Thanks!

 

[AtlasFBG2]

Did you program the system in like this?

Press PGM then NEW then TGRP. Scroll down to TSYS then select NEW. Select type MOT 800/900 Scroll down to frequencies press select. Enter in the three control channel frequencies. Press SAVE. Press SAVE again. If you want a wildcard just press SAVE again.

You dont need to enter the voice channels. Only need the control channels for it to work.

 

[troymail]

You said you programmed New Castle County - do you mean the New Castle Simulcast site?

Assuming you programmed it as a trunked MOT 800/900 system with a wildcard, I would suspect that either:

a. the database isn't showing all of the possible control/alternate control channel frequencies - in this case, you probably should program in all of the frequencies for the site (but it looks like you already did that).

b. out of range? - you didn't say where you were located. Maybe one of the other sites (other than the NC County simulcast site) would be better.

There's always other reasons...

You shouldn't need any custom tables as far as I can see.

 

[budevans]

Hello,

I recently purchased a Pro-651 and can't seem to receive transmissions when scanning Trunked Systems. I tried this in two locations with the same results.

The first Trunked System is "State of Delaware Public Safety" New Castle County. I first manually programmed the control channel and both alternate channels in Scan List No. 1. I left the default Talkgroup as "Wildcard" as it's my understanding that all Talkgroups on the system will be monitored. No transmissions were received. I verified that Scan List No. 1 was on.

I then added the remaining voice channels in my area to the Trunked System. Still, no transmissions were received.

I then substituted Talkgroup "Wildcard" with specific Talkgroups in my area. No transmissions were received.

I then tried a search using the lower and upper ranges of the Trunked System and DID receive transmissions. Some of the transmissions were clear and some were encrypted.

Question 1: Is "State of Delaware Public Safety" a 3600 system?

Question 2: Both of the Trunked Systems that I tried to scan have been rebanded. Does this model require a custom table entry? I entered the following custom table with no success:

ChLO ChHI Step Offset Base
440 559 25.000 440 851.025000
000 719 25.000 0 851.012500

Question 3: I've verified that the L/O list is empty. Are there any other settings that would cause this issue?

Programming cable is in the mail...hopefully that will give me a better understanding of the issue.

Thanks!

The State of Delaware Public Safety System is a Motorola Type II 800 Mhz system. It does require a Rebanded Table (see Table setting below).

Question 1. Yes (Moto Type II systems) use a 3600 baud rate.

Question 2. Yes it requires a Rebanded Table.

Question 3. Without knowing all of the settings entered or not entered. I can't answer that.

Per my GRE-500 Manual, here are the manual entry settings
Mot 800/900
T Tables set to Custom
Enter the table info.

Here's a copy of the Custom Rebanded Table entries for 800 Mhz.
FYI: It's way easier to do with software like WIN500.

 

[Ghstwolf62]

Also make sure your "Wildcard" is for talkgroups and not private calls. They have two wildcards you can add to a system. If its simulcast that can be a problem by itself. Check antenna too. Most scanners need an aftermarket one to work well and pick up stuff.

Try ATT and see if it helps. I've seen many say that helps in simulcast situations. I usually set the sites to "Off" rather than roam or stat too. That has worked real well in Phx, Indy and such.

If possible check different locations and see if your reception problems are location related. I'd also adjust the advanced settings to optimize them. (Can't remember where it lists the 500/600 ones though)

I've never had to set a custom table to receive, it does it automatically as far as I know. Try it though and maybe it'll help.

 

[budevans]

Folks, today all scanners monitoring a Moto Type II 800 Mhz Trunk Systems require a Rebanded Table.

How the Rebanded Table gets entered into your scanner depends on how it is programmed.

If programmed (manually) by hand, you have to manually enter the Table settings.

If programmed via software from a download source, either the source or the software itself can enter the Table settings.

Regardless of how the Tables setting get entered, they have to be there or the scanner will be looking at the wrong frequency (for most channels/freq's 15 Mhz off).

The FCC did a swap of Cell 800 Mhz freqs with Public Safety 800 Mhz freqs. The old 800 Mhz Public Safety freq's were in the 866 Mhz range. The new Public Safety are in the 851 Mhz range. As part of the frequency swap process the frequency order and channel number order was redone.

Moto Type II systems send channel numbers (not freq's) over the control channel, the receiving radio (scanners) Rebanded Table corrects for that change.

The vast majority of P25 system send actual frequency information so Rebanded Table info does not have to be entered on the receiving end (scanner).

 

[biz42]

To solve the issue I switched the trucked system type from "P25 Auto" to "MOT800/900" and manually entered the custom T Table as budevans indicates above. Looks like I am in business. Thanks to everyone for responding and have a great weekend!

 

[troymail]

Sorry for the error on my part earlier - re: rebanding, custom tables, and being surrounded by P25 systems. I didn't even consider rebanding at the time.

This is a side effect of having radios with on board libraries that program themselves. Makes us "dumb".

Good to hear all is well..

 

[Ghstwolf62]

Mine comes up with a prompt saying something like "It looks like this system has rebanded" then asking if I want to accept it as such. I've never had to manually enter any tables for any system nationwide on my 600 or other scanners more locally.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[troymail]

This seems to contain the details of why rebanded systems work without special programming sometimes but not others:

http://forums.radioreference.com/un...unking-older-uniden-bc245xlt.html#post2405085

The New Castle site has all 5's so it seems the problem was real that he had initially programmed it as a P25 system vs. a MOT 800/900.

 

[Ghstwolf62]

This seems to contain the details of why rebanded systems work without special programming sometimes but not others:

http://forums.radioreference.com/un...unking-older-uniden-bc245xlt.html#post2405085

The New Castle site has all 5's so it seems the problem was real that he had initially programmed it as a P25 system vs. a MOT 800/900.

Could be. Also could be just lucky with scanner/software combo's I have in use. I don't know honestly.

I use Mikey's software for the 600 and it does its thing without me having headaches which is why I like it so much.

 

[bigrick1964]

Good evening, I got a NIB 651 and cloned it from my pro 197, but while I show good signal strength on my 197, I have none on my 651. I'm listening to trunked system here in Arkansas, ( AWIN), but no matter what settings I change I can't get the 651 to show any signal strength and it doesn't receive as well as my 197, I've changed antennas but nothing seems to help, any ideas? Thank you in advance.

 

[Spitfire8520]

Good evening, I got a NIB 651 and cloned it from my pro 197, but while I show good signal strength on my 197, I have none on my 651. I'm listening to trunked system here in Arkansas, ( AWIN), but no matter what settings I change I can't get the 651 to show any signal strength and it doesn't receive as well as my 197, I've changed antennas but nothing seems to help, any ideas? Thank you in advance.

The http://forums.radioreference.com/radio-shack-scanners/304374-pro652.html topic might help here. Try out the settings in Post #9 and see if it fixes anything. You can access the RSSI settings using software or from the radio by going to the Expert Setting Menu (PGM - FUNC - GLOB) and scrolling until you get to the RSSI Sig Cal menu.