TRX-1 Missing DMR Transmissions

[KC1UA]

This is similar to some of my observations when monitoring conventional DMR. I'll have to run FMP tomorrow and watch it on a Con+ system vs. the TRX-1. Nothing like the added visual to further troubleshoot, but I agree with Jeff it looks like slot 2 is on vacation in those videos. I will report back to see if I notice such a pattern, but I have a feeling I will. Thanks for those videos!

I'll also use SDR# to DSD+ on the conventionals and see how things match up.

Nice to see you here too Wendy. We'll get this figured out.

 

[KC1UA]

Tim, which version of DSD+ are you using? I'm using the Fast Lane 2.10 and it shows Slot=1 and Slot=2 as opposed to what I see in your video. I'm far removed from the earlier DSD versions and I can't remember how it appeared.

Just a thought, as I watch a conventional DMR system via SDR# (Airspy) and DSD+ it contains a lot of data transmissions, which are probably GPS related or in the case of the system I'm monitoring maybe route info. No matter. Is it possible that the TRX-1 is misinterpreting voice traffic as data traffic and as a result scanning past it?

 

[KC1UA]

I'm running 2 DSD+ setups. The first is monitoring a conventional DMR system, Cape Cod Regional Transit Authority, on 453.425 MHz. Unfortunately all I was getting this evening was a talkgroup on slot 1. The TRX-1 followed every transmission. There was no slot 2 traffic.

I got my other setup running again that uses FMP24 for trunktracking. An old BC898T scanner is used to provide the discriminator audio into the DSD+ control channel side, and a R820T dongle is used for the voice side. It and the TRX-1 are now monitoring one site of a Con+ system that uses 4 frequencies in the 935-940 MHz area. Unfortunately traffic is light at this time of night but when scanning I have already noticed that the TRX-1 has on some occasions missed slot 2 traffic entirely. At one point it appeared to miss a talkgroup using Slot 1. I am continuing to monitor.

On these systems it can be assumed that odd number channels are Slot 1 and even number channels are Slot 2, (2 channels or slots per frequency) so what we were seeing in the video was the scrolling control channel event log. A future video ideally should show the DSD+ voice channel event log for actual slot info. That said it still appeared that CH=2 (which should be Slot=2 on a Con+ system anyway) was the channel that the TRX-1 was missing. I'm not sure if Cap+, which is what Tim was tracking, uses the same channel/slot setup or not as I don't have any in my area.

Preliminary observations make it clear that the TRX-1 is missing probably 50% or more of transmissions regardless of the slot. I was beginning to wonder if this might have something to do with the Wildcard but I just noticed a series of 5 transmissions that lasted for a total of 20 seconds that were entirely missed by the TRX-1. This was on slot 1. Then another series of 5 transmissions from the same talkgroup on Slot 2, lasting a total of 25 seconds, was also entirely missed. This is on a programmed talkgroup (348).

 

[AA6IO]

I must be doing something wrong. Thought I would get into the Uniden vs Whistler DMR testing tonight.
Have about 15 conventional DMR and 3 one-frequency systems with either ID search (536HP) or Wild Card TG (TRX-2). Have latest firmware on both scanners. BCD536HP been working fine and getting lots of DMR hits. My TRX-2 just seems to be hearing noise on some channels but not decoding. I set this up per a file a Jeff at Ham Station sent me with digital. However, the TRX-2 just says Auto on all the frequencies. No DMR transmissions at all. I think there must be some operator (me) error.
Did download DMR for my WS1080 last week and been comparing to BCD436HP. 436HP stops on a lot more DMR stuff. Going to have to experiment a bit, but unclear whey although I have the TRX-2 set to conventional or DMR trunk, just getting noise like not decoding the DMR on lot of channels. Any help appreciated.

 

[AA6IO]

Listening to station on 451.8625 set up as conventional on 536HP and TRX-2. Station been on quite a bit on 536HP with excellent DMR decode, but on TRX-2, all I get is "buzz" similar to listening to P25 on an analog-only scanner. Must have something set up wrong. Help. Thanks everyone.

Steve AA6IO

 

[AA6IO]

Think I figured it out. Yes, probably "Steve" error. Just realized that I have to add "conventional freq" tab and enter from that screen where it has DMR digital option. That accounts for the digital noise I am receiving. Tried to add channel from specific scan list. Forget comparisons above, will compare 536HP and TRX-2 after program the latter correctly.

 

[KC1UA]

Continuing my test this morning. Components as follows:

1. DSD+ Fast Lane 2.10 with FMP24.
2. Whistler TRX-1.
3. Both connected to same antenna via multicoupler.
4. Both scanning Industrial Communications and Electronics System 134 Site 12 Connect Plus DMR TRS.

The TRX-1 is, as a guess, missing probably about 50%-75% of voice traffic.

Observations:

1. Signal strength on the TRX-1 signal meter shows 4 bars.
2. While scanning, the TRX-1 shows a flickering white S that is bordered in black. It seems to flicker rapidly 3 times, drop, and then repeat the 3 times. This is both when traffic is being heard via DSD/FMP and when the system is silent.
3. Squelch position is at approximately 10 o'clock, but trying it in various different locations makes absolutely no difference in performance.
4. This system utilizes 4 frequencies (7 voice channels and 1 CC). When I drill down into the system configuration I do notice that in addition to the 4 frequencies entered in proper LCN order there are an additional 26 blank entries showing all 0's. I guess this must be normal and that the scanner must interpret them as being locked out.

I will make a video showing these discrepancies as soon as I can. I'll also include the Uniden BCD436HP. On another note Jeff at Hamstation has sent me a second TRX-1 to also test with which should conclude whether or not this problem is unique to my scanner. I have a feeling it's not but it's always possible, I suppose.

As mentioned before Whistler has my programming file and to my knowledge from my phone conversation my programming is correct.

 

[KC1UA]

Well, I may have found the problem.

In the Whistler TRX-1 software, for each site of a trunked system, there is a possibility of entering 32 frequencies. The system I am monitoring uses 4. The other 28 show 0.000000 and were not locked out.

I decided to try locking the 28 0.000000 entries out. In other scanners it seems to me that entries such as this are ignored by the scanner. Apparently not in this case.

After locking out the 28 "empty" frequency entries I uploaded the new config to the TRX-1. Since doing so it appears to be following not all, but maybe 95% of traffic I am observing via DSD+/FMP. It makes sense to me, because if the scanner is in fact scanning those 0.000000 entries it's essentially looking for 56 channels that simply don't exist! That's got to chew up a lot of time.

I'll continue to watch this but if this is in fact the case it would seem to me that Whistler either needs to fix the scanner so it ignores empty entries, adjust the software so by default it locks out empty entries, or both.

This doesn't explain why I am missing conventional DMR traffic but once I'm fully convinced what I've found is in fact the issue here I'll move onto that.

 

[AA6IO]

Set up DMR conventional the right way on TRX-2. Beautiful DMR decode and excellent audio quality. Have 15 channels programmed in conventional together with identical frequencies in 536HP. Sometimes TRX-2 hits, sometimes 536 hits, quite often both hit together on same 15 conventional DMR frequencies programmed in both.
Audio sounds really great on TRX-2, just like the P25. Next, will try to set up TRX-1 and compare with 436HP later this evening. Will try and post a video of P25 and DMR decode here in Los Angeles in next couple of days. Been really busy with other things.
Thanks to the folks at Whistler for their continuing efforts.

 

[AggieCon]

On my 1080, sometimes I receive the digital buzz instead of decode. I am wondering if it is having problems with the Digital mode ("DMode", options are Auto/Digital/Analog). I have not yet tried it set to digital only. This is on the Conventional Frequencies tab, 4th from right column.

 

[AA6IO]

I had few problems when set in auto mode, but have set all to "digital" in that "right" column and no more digital buzz. Just very nice DMR decoding. Excellent audio quality. In meantime, also set up TRX-1 exactly the same and working very well on DMR. Will do some further testing later.

 

[DaveIN]

Well, I may have found the problem.

In the Whistler TRX-1 software, for each site of a trunked system, there is a possibility of entering 32 frequencies. The system I am monitoring uses 4. The other 28 show 0.000000 and were not locked out.

I decided to try locking the 28 0.000000 entries out. In other scanners it seems to me that entries such as this are ignored by the scanner. Apparently not in this case.

After locking out the 28 "empty" frequency entries I uploaded the new config to the TRX-1. Since doing so it appears to be following not all, but maybe 95% of traffic I am observing via DSD+/FMP. It makes sense to me, because if the scanner is in fact scanning those 0.000000 entries it's essentially looking for 56 channels that simply don't exist! That's got to chew up a lot of time.

I'll continue to watch this but if this is in fact the case it would seem to me that Whistler either needs to fix the scanner so it ignores empty entries, adjust the software so by default it locks out empty entries, or both.

This doesn't explain why I am missing conventional DMR traffic but once I'm fully convinced what I've found is in fact the issue here I'll move onto that.

I seem to recall the PRO-92 doing the scan zero/empty channel on the initial release (before firmware updates). Maybe you can call it the PRO-92 bug. Sounds like you've nailed it down however.

 

[KC1UA]

I seem to recall the PRO-92 doing the scan zero/empty channel on the initial release (before firmware updates). Maybe you can call it the PRO-92 bug. Sounds like you've nailed it down however.

Wow, there's a flashback!

I'm pretty confident that was the issue. Tomorrow as time allows I'll revisit the conventional anomalies I was seeing, but it could be that they were a by-product of today's discovery. I'm trying to remember if I ever tried exclusive conventional scanning of DMR; not sure that I did.

I'm guessing this issue doesn't extend to scanning MOT systems. Frankly I haven't spent enough time doing so with my TRX-1 as I've been checking out its DMR capability pretty much since the word go, but it also affords an abundance of frequency entry for each site, and none of them are locked out either. Ah well, one thing at a time, I guess. I'd hope someone would have had something to say were that the case. The DMR in a scanner concept is new; MOT 3600 baud systems? Well, there's that PRO-92.... :lol:

 

[DaveIN]

Well, it's not often you can name a bug without a Latin term

I just locked out 29 zero frequencies manually in my 1098. You can press skip on each of them in the program menu and an "X" is displayed next to the zero. This one frequency DMR system is not as active this evening, so I'll need to try monitoring it tomorrow to see if it made a difference here. Thanks Scott.

 

[buddrousa]

Scott thanks for the 000.0000 tip I will test beside my 536 when I get off work. That will be some time tomorrow as I am at the Fire Station tonight.

 

[KC1UA]

Onward to the conventional DMR issues, and I believe I've made a discovery there as well. This one is a WHOPPER.

Setup for experimentation:

1. DSD+ monitoring 453.1625, which is the Cape Cod Regional Transit Authority. They have two dispatchers, one exclusively on Slot 1 (TG2), one exclusively on Slot 2 (TG1).

2. TRX-1 holding on same frequency, either with CC, TG, and SL wildcarded, or programmed exclusively for Slot 2.

3. Uniden BCD436HP sitting on 453.1625 slot 2 (introduced into the mix in the latter stages for further confirmation).

The results:

1. Originally noticed that the Whistler is missing most but not all Slot 2 traffic.
2. After observation of DSD+ it has become clearly evident that the only time the Whistler hears Slot 2 traffic IS WHEN SLOT 1 IS ALSO ACTIVE WITH TRAFFIC.
3. This has been observed for the entirety of the morning and is WITHOUT A DOUBT the cause of the problem.
4. The BCD436HP was then introduced into the mix for further confirmation, and it works fine on Slot 2 when Slot 1 is inactive.

Conclusion:

There is a GLARING problem with the current firmware of the TRX-1 (and probably the TRX-2) when it comes to monitoring conventional DMR systems, or I have one hell of a wonky radio and need a replacement (not likely). Again, if you don't have a second signal source to check this against you may have never known of an issue. But it is clear to me and I'll be glad to provide audio and video evidence if need be. Hopefully someone else that has a means to test in this manner can confirm what I am seeing/hearing/not hearing.

EDIT: I should note that the TRX-1 seems to be receiving all slot 1 traffic fine when it is set up to do so.

I'd like to know the extent of beta-testing before this scanner was released. I mean I'm glad to help or I wouldn't be typing here, but for cryin' out loud, really?

 

[AA6IO]

Locked all 0.0000 frequencies on three systems set up as trunk (PAPA sites and Long Beach Transit). TRX-2 now picking up TGs there + scanning conventional. I have also noticed that TRX-1/2 not picking up slot 2 when my 436/536HP do. Most stuff around here on slot 1, but slot 2 used, for example, on LB transit and few others: and TRX-1/2 not picking that up.

Just posted a YouTube Video of DMR conventional made last night.
Look for "Whistler TRX-2 DMR"
https://youtu.be/acCPjsYxak8

 

[Forts]

Great find there Scott. I'll see if I can replicate this on my 1088 (I'd imagine the code is pretty similar between the WS and TRX lines).

Regardless I'm sure they will push out a fix pretty quick. When I posted about no RX while holding on a TG it was fixed in under a day.

 

[n2pqq]

It seems all trunked systems regardless of the type show the 000.000 channels .

Seems strange indeed.

Look in the software under any trunked system and you will see this.

Well, I may have found the problem.

In the Whistler TRX-1 software, for each site of a trunked system, there is a possibility of entering 32 frequencies. The system I am monitoring uses 4. The other 28 show 0.000000 and were not locked out.

I decided to try locking the 28 0.000000 entries out. In other scanners it seems to me that entries such as this are ignored by the scanner. Apparently not in this case.

After locking out the 28 "empty" frequency entries I uploaded the new config to the TRX-1. Since doing so it appears to be following not all, but maybe 95% of traffic I am observing via DSD+/FMP. It makes sense to me, because if the scanner is in fact scanning those 0.000000 entries it's essentially looking for 56 channels that simply don't exist! That's got to chew up a lot of time.

I'll continue to watch this but if this is in fact the case it would seem to me that Whistler either needs to fix the scanner so it ignores empty entries, adjust the software so by default it locks out empty entries, or both.

This doesn't explain why I am missing conventional DMR traffic but once I'm fully convinced what I've found is in fact the issue here I'll move onto that.

 

[KC1UA]

It seems all trunked systems regardless of the type show the 000.000 channels .

Seems strange indeed.

Look in the software under any trunked system and you will see this.

I noticed that as well. It seems that it does not effect MOT systems, although I haven't spent a great deal of time with them. It most assuredly has a drastically negative effect on trunked DMR systems. One hint I found after the fact is in the manual on page 35.

Importing DMR systems using the EZ Scan PC
Application is nearly identical to importing any other
type of trunked radio system. The most significant
difference between DMR systems verses other types
of systems is that the scanner does not use the DMR
control channel. Instead, your scanner will attempt
to scan all sites and all frequencies for each site to
determine if there is activity to be monitored.
When programming DMR systems, it is recommended
that you select/import and/or only enable the sites that
you believe will be in range of your location.

This seems to indicate that the scanner handles DMR trunking in a considerably different manner than it does to a MOT or P25 system, and it makes sense because the scanner is looking at all the channels...apparently even the zero'd ones.